Considering there were elements of the Japanese military that attempted to coup the Emperor to stop his surrender even after the second bomb, and their scientist were arguing the US could not possibly have more so the danger was past (spoiler, we had a 3rd, with 4-6 ready in another few months), no, many of them werent even willing to surrender after two. It took the Emperor putting his foot down to even get what we got.
The part that also gets left off from all of the talk about Japan being "ready to surrender" is that they said they should still be allowed to control Korea, keep the conquered land in China, and some of the more extreme ones even wanted to only peace out with the US and Russia and keep fighting China. No one in the history of the world has even gotten a "peace" treaty like that.
And yet if they had, the Korean war would never have happened and China would never have become a communist superpower. The bad guys really did win WW2.
The biggest winners were Mao's Communist China and Stalin's Communist Russia. For sure.
The USA salvaged Germany to stop the "Iron Curtain" from rolling over a crippled Europe & rebuilt Japan to keep China in check. :/
Actually? The 3rd one: Skinny Man, was scrapped to make the Fat Man.
"In another few months" was likely April '46. With Operation Olympic set to go in November the new bombs would have been too late. It could not possibly be delayed, moral was already plunging across the Allied armies.
Had America's bluff not worked? Many millions would have died.
You are 100% right: a "negotiated peace" was the end goal of Japan's war plans after 1943. Negotiated peace = Japanese win.
I could have sworn bomb #3 was what would become more infamous as the Demon Core (since they would start experimenting with it instead of using it as a weapon). But I guess I misremembered that.
But either way, I think we both agree on the major point. Not only do I think the nuclear bombs were justified, I have found that it is a great way to ferret out those who have wildly ahistorical views or (more often) a political agenda they want to push, almost always an anti-American one. And it applies to both sides of the political aisle equally.
For sure, atomic weapons bring out the "moral relativism" and "history re-writers" from their hiding places.
"Oh it's BAD to kill someone with an atom bomb!" No, it's bad to kill someone with ANY bomb!
"They should have embargoed Japan until they surrendered!" That means no food, mass starvation and millions of horrible deaths. Not nice!
& etc.
Skinny Man would have been a 'rail trigger' bomb the same as Little Boy, except with plutonium not uranium. Trinity was a uranium bomb with 'implosion trigger' like Fat Man which used plutonium. So two each of uranium/plutonium & rail/implosion. Except they ran out of plutonium & could only build 3.
Considering there were elements of the Japanese military that attempted to coup the Emperor to stop his surrender even after the second bomb, and their scientist were arguing the US could not possibly have more so the danger was past (spoiler, we had a 3rd, with 4-6 ready in another few months), no, many of them werent even willing to surrender after two. It took the Emperor putting his foot down to even get what we got.
The part that also gets left off from all of the talk about Japan being "ready to surrender" is that they said they should still be allowed to control Korea, keep the conquered land in China, and some of the more extreme ones even wanted to only peace out with the US and Russia and keep fighting China. No one in the history of the world has even gotten a "peace" treaty like that.
And yet if they had, the Korean war would never have happened and China would never have become a communist superpower. The bad guys really did win WW2.
The biggest winners were Mao's Communist China and Stalin's Communist Russia. For sure.
The USA salvaged Germany to stop the "Iron Curtain" from rolling over a crippled Europe & rebuilt Japan to keep China in check. :/
Actually? The 3rd one: Skinny Man, was scrapped to make the Fat Man.
"In another few months" was likely April '46. With Operation Olympic set to go in November the new bombs would have been too late. It could not possibly be delayed, moral was already plunging across the Allied armies.
Had America's bluff not worked? Many millions would have died.
You are 100% right: a "negotiated peace" was the end goal of Japan's war plans after 1943. Negotiated peace = Japanese win.
I could have sworn bomb #3 was what would become more infamous as the Demon Core (since they would start experimenting with it instead of using it as a weapon). But I guess I misremembered that.
But either way, I think we both agree on the major point. Not only do I think the nuclear bombs were justified, I have found that it is a great way to ferret out those who have wildly ahistorical views or (more often) a political agenda they want to push, almost always an anti-American one. And it applies to both sides of the political aisle equally.
For sure, atomic weapons bring out the "moral relativism" and "history re-writers" from their hiding places.
"Oh it's BAD to kill someone with an atom bomb!" No, it's bad to kill someone with ANY bomb!
"They should have embargoed Japan until they surrendered!" That means no food, mass starvation and millions of horrible deaths. Not nice!
& etc.
Skinny Man would have been a 'rail trigger' bomb the same as Little Boy, except with plutonium not uranium. Trinity was a uranium bomb with 'implosion trigger' like Fat Man which used plutonium. So two each of uranium/plutonium & rail/implosion. Except they ran out of plutonium & could only build 3.