Now, how are the tens of millions of Americans who are just like them going to understand WW2, when they know the institutions can't be trusted.
Its a real issue because all the "neutral" sources are actually heavily painted towards the common consensus and narrative, to a point where its nearly impossible to even find anything remotely outside of that. You get the high school simplified version, and the longer detailed version that is a lot of boring details only really interesting to mega-autists who enjoy tank specifications and playing Risk.
So the only way to receive information outside of it is to listen to people who have thier own axe to grind, and are just as likely to be painting it to their flavor. But it is new information, that is usually completely factual once you verify it, so you begin to question everything and trust them more.
What makes it extra dumb is that if you really tried to lay out a neutral-as-possible understanding of the war, you'd not have a position that was too far away from what the Mainstream wants. It would be super easy to say "some Jewish elite were being fucked up in Weimar and it upset a lot of people" and then its not hard to follow that with "but that doesn't justify the Holocaust and the levels Nazis went to regarding it." And numerous other spots where the two sides differ heavily in what they are saying. The majority of the time, most people would end up on the side of the mainstream anyway.
But instead it was a full circled wagon. Weimar doesn't get mentioned in the slightest so the Nazis just woke up and decided to be evil just cuz. Which makes it super easy for the opposite side to point out reasons and crumble the entire tower of propaganda. Which creates the super easy hole of "what else were they lying about?!?!" to be filled with all sorts of anything.
I actually do understand the complaint
I get what you are saying, but their complaint isn't actually their complaint. Their complaint is that people don't just reflexively trust "the experts" (academics, talking heads and anyone on the approved list). Otherwise they are just as anti- as the people they decry in these ways.
we should do to Putin what we did to Hitler
I still cannot even comprehend why I'm supposed to hate Putin/Russia. Like, I get why people did in the Cold War and guys who lived through that can't let it go. But otherwise he/they have done very little different or worse than what our "allies" do. And unlike them, he/they at least back up their shit with actual actions on their own instead of demanding the US do it for them.
Yet he/they are spoken of like its just the natural state of things that you will hate and despise. And thereby they can casually talk about deporting, genocide, and invading like they aren't even real people.
The majority of the time, most people would end up on the side of the mainstream anyway.
I guess I'm grateful that my friends allow me to teach them the history they don't know, because they trust me to separate out known facts, and then my opinions.
(Believe it or not, when I'm genuinely trying to teach someone a subject I come off much less opinionated than I do here.)
Their complaint is that people don't just reflexively trust "the experts"
Which is weird because so much of their youth was spent condemning the knowledge of the institutions which they undermined, destroyed, and then replaced with their own bullshit.
I still cannot even comprehend why I'm supposed to hate Putin/Russia
In fairness, he did not defensively invade Ukraine. Since the coup, he's been attempting to divide out the geo-strategic, or politically useful, portions of Ukraine that he can.
when I'm genuinely trying to teach someone a subject I come off much less opinionated than I do here
For what its worth, I still do take your considerable knowledge base into consideration and allow myself to learn from it. I don't often think you are lying, only that your conclusions from the info are disagreeable.
In fairness, he did not defensively invade Ukraine.
Its an opinion I had long before Ukraine. I was anti-Europe, buddingly pro-Putin all the way back during the Obama years. I never got a solid answer as to why I should reflexively resist Russia on things, only that I was supposed to.
Ukraine is at least something on that front, so even if I don't support the Ukies much it is a reason I can see being anti-Russia/Putin on.
Even if the stated reasons and the people saying it are usually very retarded.
Its a real issue because all the "neutral" sources are actually heavily painted towards the common consensus and narrative, to a point where its nearly impossible to even find anything remotely outside of that. You get the high school simplified version, and the longer detailed version that is a lot of boring details only really interesting to mega-autists who enjoy tank specifications and playing Risk.
So the only way to receive information outside of it is to listen to people who have thier own axe to grind, and are just as likely to be painting it to their flavor. But it is new information, that is usually completely factual once you verify it, so you begin to question everything and trust them more.
What makes it extra dumb is that if you really tried to lay out a neutral-as-possible understanding of the war, you'd not have a position that was too far away from what the Mainstream wants. It would be super easy to say "some Jewish elite were being fucked up in Weimar and it upset a lot of people" and then its not hard to follow that with "but that doesn't justify the Holocaust and the levels Nazis went to regarding it." And numerous other spots where the two sides differ heavily in what they are saying. The majority of the time, most people would end up on the side of the mainstream anyway.
But instead it was a full circled wagon. Weimar doesn't get mentioned in the slightest so the Nazis just woke up and decided to be evil just cuz. Which makes it super easy for the opposite side to point out reasons and crumble the entire tower of propaganda. Which creates the super easy hole of "what else were they lying about?!?!" to be filled with all sorts of anything.
I get what you are saying, but their complaint isn't actually their complaint. Their complaint is that people don't just reflexively trust "the experts" (academics, talking heads and anyone on the approved list). Otherwise they are just as anti- as the people they decry in these ways.
I still cannot even comprehend why I'm supposed to hate Putin/Russia. Like, I get why people did in the Cold War and guys who lived through that can't let it go. But otherwise he/they have done very little different or worse than what our "allies" do. And unlike them, he/they at least back up their shit with actual actions on their own instead of demanding the US do it for them.
Yet he/they are spoken of like its just the natural state of things that you will hate and despise. And thereby they can casually talk about deporting, genocide, and invading like they aren't even real people.
I guess I'm grateful that my friends allow me to teach them the history they don't know, because they trust me to separate out known facts, and then my opinions.
(Believe it or not, when I'm genuinely trying to teach someone a subject I come off much less opinionated than I do here.)
Which is weird because so much of their youth was spent condemning the knowledge of the institutions which they undermined, destroyed, and then replaced with their own bullshit.
In fairness, he did not defensively invade Ukraine. Since the coup, he's been attempting to divide out the geo-strategic, or politically useful, portions of Ukraine that he can.
For what its worth, I still do take your considerable knowledge base into consideration and allow myself to learn from it. I don't often think you are lying, only that your conclusions from the info are disagreeable.
Its an opinion I had long before Ukraine. I was anti-Europe, buddingly pro-Putin all the way back during the Obama years. I never got a solid answer as to why I should reflexively resist Russia on things, only that I was supposed to.
Ukraine is at least something on that front, so even if I don't support the Ukies much it is a reason I can see being anti-Russia/Putin on.
Even if the stated reasons and the people saying it are usually very retarded.
I couldn't ask for anything more.
Normally it's just Leftist Jingoism (which is terrifying in it's own right).