“Our two weapons are the Quran, and the Hadith...and the Sunnah.... Our three weapons are the Quran, the Hadith, the Sunnah...and an almost fanatical devotion to a pedophile warlord....”
Also the OP is forgetting "Reliance of the Traveller" which is the main jurisprudence book of the religion, that is, how to actually apply the "law" in real life from those two books.
If anything it may be more important since it's where proper sharia comes from. It's also a great conversation piece.
It's one of the lies that muslims tell to try and hide themselves. They'll claim if it's not in the koran then it's not islam, knowing full well that all the really sick stuff is hidden in the hadith.
This is part of the lie that islam is just a religion. It's the hadith that fills it all out into a full blown political & social movement. There is no such thing as non-political islam.
It is, however, the only text believed to be divinely dictated in Islam, viz. the direct word of God/Allah transmitted through
Gabriel (Jibril) to Muhammad while he was in a trance-like state.
All other texts, such as the Muwatta and other hadith collections and the tafsirs (texts equivalent to Bible commentaries), are accepted as man-made.
One difference between Christianity and Islam is that the Quran's authenticity is much less debated. There are no debates as to whether certain chapters are pseudepigraphal and very little debate as to whether certain verses are insertions.
By contrast, Christians can't even decide whether the Bible is a compilation of 66 texts, 73 texts, &c. If we simply include everything, we'd have a compilation of at least 120 texts.
Hey, you're very well-informed. I would add that the Koran is not just the 'word of God', as you say, but actually the recitation of an eternally existing, uncreated book. The Koran isn't as much the Islamic equivalent of the Bible, but the equivalent of Jesus (sans the Trinity of course), as strange as that sounds.
By contrast, Christians can't even decide whether the Bible is a compilation of 66 texts, 73 texts, &c. If we simply include everything, we'd have a compilation of at least 120 texts.
How do you get at the 120? Many, if not all, of these books are the same in all denominations.
Covenant Press compiled 120 into a text titled The 120-Book Holy Bible and Apocrypha Collection.
This collection includes all 66 books of the Holy Bible, as well as Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, 1-4 Baruch, 1-4 Maccabees, Apocryphal Esther, Apocryphal Psalms, Apocryphal Daniel (including Azariah, Susanna, and Bel and the Dragon), 1-2 Esdras, Prayer of Manasseh, Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs (12 works), Jubilees, 1-3 Enoch, Book of Giants (from the DSS), Jasher, Life of Adam and Eve, Book of Creation, Testament of Abraham, Testament of Isaac, Testament of Jacob, Ladder of Jacob, Joseph and Asenath, Testament of Job, Testament of Moses, Testament of Solomon, Psalms of Solomon, Lives of the Prophets, Words of Gad the Seer, Ascension of Isaiah, Revelation of Abraham, Revelation of Elijah, Revelation of Zephaniah, Apocryphon of Ezekiel, Epistle of Aristeas, Didache, Revelation of Peter, Epistle of Barnabas, 3 Corinthians, 1-2 Clement, Seven Epistles of Ignatius (seven works), Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians, Martyrdom of Polycarp, Epistle of Mathetes to Diognetus, The Shepherd of Hermas, Odes of Peace, Apology of Aristides, and additional apocryphal fragments.
Additionally, given that the Ethiopian Bible contains texts that are not in this collection, the total number required to make a truly comprehensive compilation aiming to include absolutely everything without exception probably exceeds 130.
I should have mentioned in my first paragraph that the Ahmadiyya technically consider a second book, the Tadhkirah, to also contain the word of God. The Tadhkirah is believed by Ahmadis to contain revelations which were received by the group's founder (MGA), committed to paper by him at the time, and compiled and published 15 or so years after his death. However, because of the pervasive belief among non-Ahmadi Muslims that Muhammad was the last prophet, MGA claims prophethood in an unusual way, using Sufi arguments; namely, that his prophethood is merely a continuation of some prior prophethood. MGA seems to have claimed to be a 'reflection' or 'shadow', a metaphorical second coming, of prophet Jesus. (Ahmadis reject the Israeliyat idea accepted by most non-Ahmadi Muslims that Jesus will literally return, but someone will come who shares his qualities.) Thus Muhammad was still the last prophet, since MGA is a continuation of the earlier prophet Jesus, possessing not the soul of Jesus but his qualities, rather than a new prophet. This is similar to how the return of Jesus will not mean that Muhammad was not the last prophet, since Jesus was born earlier and therefore in a sense is not the last even if he spends time on Earth and then dies after Muhammad.
This is also why certain Ahmadi offshoot leaders also claim to be messengers and/or prophets, e.g. Ahmed Azim from Mauritius, and in the case of Abdul Janbah from Pakistan, to also be Jesus. They do this through claiming to be 'reflections' of MGA, and since MGA is also a 'reflection' of Jesus, Janbah also claims to be Jesus.
Given that Jesus claimed that John the Baptist was a sort of non-literal continuation of Elijah, similar or identical to the Sufi 'shadow' or 'reflection' concept, Jesus himself seemed to believe that such a thing was possible.
Covenant Press compiled 120 into a text titled The 120-Book Holy Bible and Apocrypha Collection.
Interesting. But I don't think many/any mainstream Christian denomination regard most of those apocryphal works as canonical.
I should have mentioned in my first paragraph that the Ahmadiyya technically consider a second book, the Tadhkirah, to also contain the word of God. The Tadhkirah is believed by Ahmadis to contain revelations which were received by the group's founder (MGA), committed to paper by him at the time, and compiled and published 15 or so years after his death.
Now that's something I didn't know. How did you learn this much about Islam?
“Our two weapons are the Quran, and the Hadith...and the Sunnah.... Our three weapons are the Quran, the Hadith, the Sunnah...and an almost fanatical devotion to a pedophile warlord....”
Also the OP is forgetting "Reliance of the Traveller" which is the main jurisprudence book of the religion, that is, how to actually apply the "law" in real life from those two books.
If anything it may be more important since it's where proper sharia comes from. It's also a great conversation piece.
"Islam says to do this."
"No it doesn't."
"Yes it does, see? Here."
"Oh."
But which one is more flammable ? Asking for a friend
Use them for fire starters and grill some fatty bacon with them.
Likewise judaism also has the talmud and the kaballah.
Meanwhile, the enlightened Christians decided to just make a compilation of their Book Of x entries, much more efficient.
If you like that you're gonna love Ghiyāth al-Dīn Abū al-Fatḥ ʿUmar ibn Ibrāhīm Nīshābūrī and others like him.
It's one of the lies that muslims tell to try and hide themselves. They'll claim if it's not in the koran then it's not islam, knowing full well that all the really sick stuff is hidden in the hadith.
This is part of the lie that islam is just a religion. It's the hadith that fills it all out into a full blown political & social movement. There is no such thing as non-political islam.
It is, however, the only text believed to be divinely dictated in Islam, viz. the direct word of God/Allah transmitted through Gabriel (Jibril) to Muhammad while he was in a trance-like state.
All other texts, such as the Muwatta and other hadith collections and the tafsirs (texts equivalent to Bible commentaries), are accepted as man-made.
One difference between Christianity and Islam is that the Quran's authenticity is much less debated. There are no debates as to whether certain chapters are pseudepigraphal and very little debate as to whether certain verses are insertions.
By contrast, Christians can't even decide whether the Bible is a compilation of 66 texts, 73 texts, &c. If we simply include everything, we'd have a compilation of at least 120 texts.
Hey, you're very well-informed. I would add that the Koran is not just the 'word of God', as you say, but actually the recitation of an eternally existing, uncreated book. The Koran isn't as much the Islamic equivalent of the Bible, but the equivalent of Jesus (sans the Trinity of course), as strange as that sounds.
How do you get at the 120? Many, if not all, of these books are the same in all denominations.
Covenant Press compiled 120 into a text titled The 120-Book Holy Bible and Apocrypha Collection.
Additionally, given that the Ethiopian Bible contains texts that are not in this collection, the total number required to make a truly comprehensive compilation aiming to include absolutely everything without exception probably exceeds 130.
I should have mentioned in my first paragraph that the Ahmadiyya technically consider a second book, the Tadhkirah, to also contain the word of God. The Tadhkirah is believed by Ahmadis to contain revelations which were received by the group's founder (MGA), committed to paper by him at the time, and compiled and published 15 or so years after his death. However, because of the pervasive belief among non-Ahmadi Muslims that Muhammad was the last prophet, MGA claims prophethood in an unusual way, using Sufi arguments; namely, that his prophethood is merely a continuation of some prior prophethood. MGA seems to have claimed to be a 'reflection' or 'shadow', a metaphorical second coming, of prophet Jesus. (Ahmadis reject the Israeliyat idea accepted by most non-Ahmadi Muslims that Jesus will literally return, but someone will come who shares his qualities.) Thus Muhammad was still the last prophet, since MGA is a continuation of the earlier prophet Jesus, possessing not the soul of Jesus but his qualities, rather than a new prophet. This is similar to how the return of Jesus will not mean that Muhammad was not the last prophet, since Jesus was born earlier and therefore in a sense is not the last even if he spends time on Earth and then dies after Muhammad.
This is also why certain Ahmadi offshoot leaders also claim to be messengers and/or prophets, e.g. Ahmed Azim from Mauritius, and in the case of Abdul Janbah from Pakistan, to also be Jesus. They do this through claiming to be 'reflections' of MGA, and since MGA is also a 'reflection' of Jesus, Janbah also claims to be Jesus.
Given that Jesus claimed that John the Baptist was a sort of non-literal continuation of Elijah, similar or identical to the Sufi 'shadow' or 'reflection' concept, Jesus himself seemed to believe that such a thing was possible.
Interesting. But I don't think many/any mainstream Christian denomination regard most of those apocryphal works as canonical.
Now that's something I didn't know. How did you learn this much about Islam?