Some 1,200 Israelis died that day, probably many or most of them killed by their own countryโs panic-stricken and trigger-happy IDF forces, whose Apache helicopters were ordered to blast anything that moved
No... For the most part air assets weren't even responding. Hell the military in general was slow to respond. Most of the time it was cops getting into full scale gun battles on interstates, in street corners, and in their police stations, and often losing because they didn't have RPGs.
although such losses were hardly insignificant in a Jewish population of some 7.2 million
What the fuck does that matter? "It only killed 0.1% of the population, therefore, shut up and stop whining."
The Israel Police issues a statement reacting to a claim in Haaretz that an IDF helicopter that arrived at the site of the Supernova festival near Reโim on October 7 may have killed some Israeli civilians.
The Haaretz article in Hebrew cites an unnamed Israel Police official saying that its investigation of the incident found that an IDF helicopter at the site that was firing at terrorists โapparently harmed a few partygoers who were in the area.โ
Even the israelis admit they killed their own. Now theyโll never admit the scale but we already know they lie about casualty counts endlessly, so the important point is they fact theyโve been forced to admit it at all.
The left-wing daily Haaretz said the investigation centred on an incident in Kibbutz Be'eri, one of the worst hit communities, in which a house was shelled by a tank, killing 12 Israeli hostages held by Palestinian Hamas gunmen.
What the fuck does that matter?
The author says exactly what it matters in the next sentenceโฆ do you know how reading works lol?
Yes, 0.1% is a big part of any country to lose overnight BUT if israel didnโt try to turn this into justification for a genocide, and instead only responded with a couple weeks of missile strikes and pregnant women sniped, then they would be far better off today than they actually are, which is basically with their back against a chasm and the whole world gradually getting more and more pissed off at them
Elements of the Haaretz article were taken widely out of context on social media and used to blame Israel for hundreds of civilian deaths on October 7, none of which has any basis in fact and in extensive reporting about the massacre.
Which is exactly what UNZ did. Explicitly claim that most of the casualties on the day were inflicted by the IDF, which is simply impossible because many weren't even fucking there.
I wouldn't be surprised if they were firing machine guns and a stray round or ricochet hit a civilian. That's actual collateral damage.
Yes, 0.1% is a big part of any country to lose overnight BUT if israel didnโt try to turn this into justification for a genocide
Again, what the fuck does that matter? The purpose of the population percentage argument is only to minimize the attack. If we accept that Israel's response is genocidal, then it still wouldn't matter how many were killed, because the issue is the act of genocide. If the response is not genocidal, then it still doesn't matter how many people were killed, because it matters what Israel should be doing in response to some number of Israeli citizens being killed.
The proportion of dead shouldn't matter to what type of response needs to happen, especially if we are asserting that genocides are wholly unethical.
If we accept that Israel's response is genocidal, then it still wouldn't matter how many were killed, because the issue is the act of genocide. If the response is not genocidal, then it still doesn't matter how many people were killed, because it matters what Israel should be doing in response to some number of Israeli citizens being killed.
The proportion of dead shouldn't matter to what type of response needs to happen, especially if we are asserting that genocides are wholly unethical.
Youโre making some good points from the perspective of an individual with a consistent set of views being applied to, I guess, this and other discussions. However I think that perspective misses the point of the article. Iโll try to summarize what I think the point mostly is:
For everyone out there looking at this situation from a perspective which isnโt an israeli or a palestinian there is a different breaking point where they will go from seeing the situation as itโs always been presented in the mainstream media and start to see it for what it is (a genocide).
This breaking point is different for every person. For muslims nearby, they saw the crisis and the refugees first hand and have long hated israel for their actions. But in the West thatโs just not the case. The default position is โthe jews deserve a homeland, thatโs where it has to beโ. They donโt see it as a an invasion followed by a colonization amounting to a slow genocide. That is, until they start to see first hand what israel justifies in its pursuit of โa homelandโ.
In the last year alone weโve seen
Tens of thousands of woman and children murdered (war crime)
โisraeli victimsโ as often as not being more accurately described as โvictims of israeli friendly fireโ
Gang rape of prisoners being sanctioned by superiors in the govt and army and supported by mass demonstrations of the population
Severe torture unto death of doctors and other aid workers
Targeted assassinations of the people currently negotiating ceasefires, conducted in other counties, like Syria and Iran
Open discussion by israeli leadership of the โGreater Israelโ plan to invade and seize parts of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, etc based on nothing but their delusional racist fantasies
And on and on and on, the war crimes are almost too many to list - and thatโs just in the last year, this has been happening (to various degrees) for 7 decades. The point of the article is that given how insane the zionists have gotten recently, more and more people have been forced to reckon with reality. And this reckoning doesnโt look good for the modern state of israelโฆ
Actuallyโand if you read the article, the further context reinforces thisโheโs saying they werenโt insignificant, and itโs understandable that it would be shocking. It tripped me up the first time I read the sentence as well.
No... For the most part air assets weren't even responding. Hell the military in general was slow to respond. Most of the time it was cops getting into full scale gun battles on interstates, in street corners, and in their police stations, and often losing because they didn't have RPGs.
What the fuck does that matter? "It only killed 0.1% of the population, therefore, shut up and stop whining."
โNoโฆโ
Even the israelis admit they killed their own. Now theyโll never admit the scale but we already know they lie about casualty counts endlessly, so the important point is they fact theyโve been forced to admit it at all.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-police-slams-haaretz-claim-idf-helicopter-may-have-harmed-civilians-on-oct-7/
And from a different article:
The author says exactly what it matters in the next sentenceโฆ do you know how reading works lol?
Yes, 0.1% is a big part of any country to lose overnight BUT if israel didnโt try to turn this into justification for a genocide, and instead only responded with a couple weeks of missile strikes and pregnant women sniped, then they would be far better off today than they actually are, which is basically with their back against a chasm and the whole world gradually getting more and more pissed off at them
Which is exactly what UNZ did. Explicitly claim that most of the casualties on the day were inflicted by the IDF, which is simply impossible because many weren't even fucking there.
I wouldn't be surprised if they were firing machine guns and a stray round or ricochet hit a civilian. That's actual collateral damage.
Again, what the fuck does that matter? The purpose of the population percentage argument is only to minimize the attack. If we accept that Israel's response is genocidal, then it still wouldn't matter how many were killed, because the issue is the act of genocide. If the response is not genocidal, then it still doesn't matter how many people were killed, because it matters what Israel should be doing in response to some number of Israeli citizens being killed.
The proportion of dead shouldn't matter to what type of response needs to happen, especially if we are asserting that genocides are wholly unethical.
Youโre making some good points from the perspective of an individual with a consistent set of views being applied to, I guess, this and other discussions. However I think that perspective misses the point of the article. Iโll try to summarize what I think the point mostly is:
For everyone out there looking at this situation from a perspective which isnโt an israeli or a palestinian there is a different breaking point where they will go from seeing the situation as itโs always been presented in the mainstream media and start to see it for what it is (a genocide).
This breaking point is different for every person. For muslims nearby, they saw the crisis and the refugees first hand and have long hated israel for their actions. But in the West thatโs just not the case. The default position is โthe jews deserve a homeland, thatโs where it has to beโ. They donโt see it as a an invasion followed by a colonization amounting to a slow genocide. That is, until they start to see first hand what israel justifies in its pursuit of โa homelandโ.
In the last year alone weโve seen
Tens of thousands of woman and children murdered (war crime)
Thousands of booby trapped (war crime) devices exploded indiscriminately (war crime)
โisraeli victimsโ as often as not being more accurately described as โvictims of israeli friendly fireโ
Gang rape of prisoners being sanctioned by superiors in the govt and army and supported by mass demonstrations of the population
Severe torture unto death of doctors and other aid workers
Targeted assassinations of the people currently negotiating ceasefires, conducted in other counties, like Syria and Iran
Open discussion by israeli leadership of the โGreater Israelโ plan to invade and seize parts of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, etc based on nothing but their delusional racist fantasies
And on and on and on, the war crimes are almost too many to list - and thatโs just in the last year, this has been happening (to various degrees) for 7 decades. The point of the article is that given how insane the zionists have gotten recently, more and more people have been forced to reckon with reality. And this reckoning doesnโt look good for the modern state of israelโฆ
Actuallyโand if you read the article, the further context reinforces thisโheโs saying they werenโt insignificant, and itโs understandable that it would be shocking. It tripped me up the first time I read the sentence as well.
Fuck.
I still don't think it's a relevant detail to bring up, but that makes more sense.
You werenโt the one who reported it right?
No.