But how can some forms of matter possess consciousness while others do not? After all, our brains are composed of the same atoms and molecules as the rest of the universe.
But seriously, have you got any thoughts on how consciousness arises from/in unconscious matter? I think people would be interested in that no matter their stance on panpsychism. It’s not called the Hard Problem for nothing.
He doesn't need to elaborate on the conventionally accepted theory. That's your responsibility to research and know when discussing alternatives. I think this topic is interesting, but you quoted this yourself in another comment:
According to philosophical materialism, mind and consciousness are caused by physical processes, such as the neurochemistry of the human brain and nervous system
While not fully proven as the seat of consciousness, those mechanical processes are heavily studied and documented. It's not the mystery to materialists that you make it out to be. Your implication of "How come I can think and a rock can't? Nobody knows!" is completely false. Our bodies are composed of the same atoms and molecules as the sun. Why don't we make sunlight?!
Our bodies are composed of the same atoms and molecules as the sun. Why don't we make sunlight?!
The degree to which we understand nuclear processes and the degree to which we understand consciousness are literally multiple orders of magnitude off from each other.
Obviously no one needs to do anything. I posted a discussion piece though, you’d think some people would be up to actually discuss as opposed to just h8n
He doesn't need to elaborate on the conventionally accepted theory
What even is this “conventionally accepted theory”? No ones named one yet. One could imagine you’re referring to the theory of consciousness as an epiphenomena of the interaction of unconscious matter? Regardless of the specific one you identify, the point is that none of these are “conventionally accepted” - its known as the “Hard Problem” precisely because there is no conventionally accepted theory.
Bro I'm not sure if you are autistic or just obstinately argumentative. LibertyPrimeWasRight and BandageBandolier already elaborated on my comment enough, but I have no issues with your thread topic, only that comment and your defensive attitude in replies.
IMO RondoOBlongo's criticism of Sheldrake's attempt at sound like an Indian Guru WAS legitimate discussion and not 'h8n.' Your dismissiveness is rich when you're the one proposing an alternative theory in the first place. Pretending there is no mainstream theory comes across as disingenuous when other comments of yours show that you knew exactly what I was talking about.
I do think the ideas of panpsychism make a lot of sense from a philosophical point of view. One of the reasons I liked the 2017 Prey game was the allusions to pansychism as you got deeper into the story. It's also the only way I'd ever believe real AI could ever be achieved - when we "unlock" the correct combination of materials and the innate structure of the universe reveals it to us.
Depressingly, with enough reading you'll find that the common zeitgeist among materialists is that consciousness doesn't exist the way you are expecting. What you perceive is merely an artifact of cascading neuron activity. Biological creatures have awareness from the senses, and self-awareness is just numerous hidden layers of neural networks reflecting back at themselves. Thought is then an illusion that fades away on brain death when neuron activity stops. I hate the idea, I don't believe it, but I'm not going to pretend that The Science hasn't attempted an explanation because I don't like their explanation. Non-materialists don't exactly have the unassailable rational theories you're demanding from materialists either.
Our bodies are composed of the same atoms and molecules as the sun. Why don't we make sunlight?!
The degree to which we understand nuclear processes and the degree to which we understand consciousness are literally multiple orders of magnitude off from each other.
Completely missing the point, which is that the same atoms and molecules arranged in different ways do drastically different things. The argument that “our brains have the same molecules as [any other thing], therefore [other thing] should be able to perform the functions of a brain” is vacuous. That was the point.
This is all very easily made trivial if you just stop considering consciousness as some special property that has be imparted on things.
If it's just the output from parsing an incredibly complicated series of biological logic gates, then the materialists have nothing more to prove than the biological system simply exists.
That's not how that works
Lol
But seriously, have you got any thoughts on how consciousness arises from/in unconscious matter? I think people would be interested in that no matter their stance on panpsychism. It’s not called the Hard Problem for nothing.
He doesn't need to elaborate on the conventionally accepted theory. That's your responsibility to research and know when discussing alternatives. I think this topic is interesting, but you quoted this yourself in another comment:
While not fully proven as the seat of consciousness, those mechanical processes are heavily studied and documented. It's not the mystery to materialists that you make it out to be. Your implication of "How come I can think and a rock can't? Nobody knows!" is completely false. Our bodies are composed of the same atoms and molecules as the sun. Why don't we make sunlight?!
The degree to which we understand nuclear processes and the degree to which we understand consciousness are literally multiple orders of magnitude off from each other.
Obviously no one needs to do anything. I posted a discussion piece though, you’d think some people would be up to actually discuss as opposed to just h8n
What even is this “conventionally accepted theory”? No ones named one yet. One could imagine you’re referring to the theory of consciousness as an epiphenomena of the interaction of unconscious matter? Regardless of the specific one you identify, the point is that none of these are “conventionally accepted” - its known as the “Hard Problem” precisely because there is no conventionally accepted theory.
Bro I'm not sure if you are autistic or just obstinately argumentative. LibertyPrimeWasRight and BandageBandolier already elaborated on my comment enough, but I have no issues with your thread topic, only that comment and your defensive attitude in replies.
IMO RondoOBlongo's criticism of Sheldrake's attempt at sound like an Indian Guru WAS legitimate discussion and not 'h8n.' Your dismissiveness is rich when you're the one proposing an alternative theory in the first place. Pretending there is no mainstream theory comes across as disingenuous when other comments of yours show that you knew exactly what I was talking about.
I do think the ideas of panpsychism make a lot of sense from a philosophical point of view. One of the reasons I liked the 2017 Prey game was the allusions to pansychism as you got deeper into the story. It's also the only way I'd ever believe real AI could ever be achieved - when we "unlock" the correct combination of materials and the innate structure of the universe reveals it to us.
Depressingly, with enough reading you'll find that the common zeitgeist among materialists is that consciousness doesn't exist the way you are expecting. What you perceive is merely an artifact of cascading neuron activity. Biological creatures have awareness from the senses, and self-awareness is just numerous hidden layers of neural networks reflecting back at themselves. Thought is then an illusion that fades away on brain death when neuron activity stops. I hate the idea, I don't believe it, but I'm not going to pretend that The Science hasn't attempted an explanation because I don't like their explanation. Non-materialists don't exactly have the unassailable rational theories you're demanding from materialists either.
Completely missing the point, which is that the same atoms and molecules arranged in different ways do drastically different things. The argument that “our brains have the same molecules as [any other thing], therefore [other thing] should be able to perform the functions of a brain” is vacuous. That was the point.
H2O and OH- have the same atoms, but are completely different. That's not how atoms and molecules work.
Where 👏 does 👏 consciousness 👏 come 👏 from 👏 then 👏 genius 👏
This is all very easily made trivial if you just stop considering consciousness as some special property that has be imparted on things.
If it's just the output from parsing an incredibly complicated series of biological logic gates, then the materialists have nothing more to prove than the biological system simply exists.
God dumbass
Why won't my silicone spatula compute as fast as a 4090?!
I know, it must be magic.