We face the delicate question of the diplomatic fencing to be done so as to be sure Japan is put into the wrong and makes the first bad move. ... The question was how we should maneuver them [the Japanese] into the position of firing the first shot.
No doubt, I know they were pushed into it, but just like the Confederates at Ft Sumter, they still fired the first shot. Furthermore, they didn't think strategically when it came to target selection at Pearl Harbor, they left the fuel oil tanks alone, and completely ignored all shipyard facilities. They should have sent a third wave to hit those targets, but Nagumo was too timid.
What they should have done was not attack America at all and just gone for the Dutch East Indies and maybe British Malaya. Then pray to God America not get involved. Then if America gets involved their strategy of making it a bloody slog to the point Americans can accept a negotiated peace, instead of unconditional surrender is much more plausible. Getting revenge for Pearl Harbor is a huge motivator. Fighting for some Dutch colonies isn't. The whole time making it clear they don't/didn't want war with America and only want peace.
I also think Japan could have done far more harm to America's Navy early on. Most of the ships at Pear Harbor were recovered do to the shallow waters and the Carriers weren't present. Yamamoto understood the importance of Carriers early on and the Japanese sailors and pilots were more experienced. Japan could have sunk a lot of those ships in much deeper waters like they did to the British during the Indian Ocean Raids.
There's a slight, but I believe important difference between the two situations. fort Sumter was indeed a union fort, but it was deep within Confederate territory and the CSA just declared itself an independent nation. It could be argued that the Union was illegally occupying the CSA and were expelled with force.
Pearl harbor was US territory amongst US held space. Unlike fort Sumter, you cannot claim that the attack on Pearl harbor was defensive.
the funny thing is they were so close to finishing it. if the carriers were at pearl harbor and we're sunk, that likely would have been the end of the war. even if the US wanted to enter the war, they would have been incredibly behind as Japan steam rolls over the Eastern Pacific.
Japan would have been nuked even if it army had been squeaky clean, which obviously it was not.
The nukes were not 'revenge'. They were an exercise of power. An attestation to the fact that the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must, just like the Japanese did in China.
"Japan committed horrible war crimes and saw the sun twice because of it"
--something I was told on another win a few weeks ago
I've been to Hiroshima, stood in front of the bombed out Observatory. What was I thinking?
"Don't start what you can't finish."
---Henry L. Stimson Secretary of war
Who started it again?
No doubt, I know they were pushed into it, but just like the Confederates at Ft Sumter, they still fired the first shot. Furthermore, they didn't think strategically when it came to target selection at Pearl Harbor, they left the fuel oil tanks alone, and completely ignored all shipyard facilities. They should have sent a third wave to hit those targets, but Nagumo was too timid.
What they should have done was not attack America at all and just gone for the Dutch East Indies and maybe British Malaya. Then pray to God America not get involved. Then if America gets involved their strategy of making it a bloody slog to the point Americans can accept a negotiated peace, instead of unconditional surrender is much more plausible. Getting revenge for Pearl Harbor is a huge motivator. Fighting for some Dutch colonies isn't. The whole time making it clear they don't/didn't want war with America and only want peace.
I also think Japan could have done far more harm to America's Navy early on. Most of the ships at Pear Harbor were recovered do to the shallow waters and the Carriers weren't present. Yamamoto understood the importance of Carriers early on and the Japanese sailors and pilots were more experienced. Japan could have sunk a lot of those ships in much deeper waters like they did to the British during the Indian Ocean Raids.
There's a slight, but I believe important difference between the two situations. fort Sumter was indeed a union fort, but it was deep within Confederate territory and the CSA just declared itself an independent nation. It could be argued that the Union was illegally occupying the CSA and were expelled with force.
Pearl harbor was US territory amongst US held space. Unlike fort Sumter, you cannot claim that the attack on Pearl harbor was defensive.
Most Europeans do not know that Hitler declared war on the US, and think that they 'liberated' us out of goodwill or something.
Are you talking about Japan attacking the US, or the US nuking Japan?
the funny thing is they were so close to finishing it. if the carriers were at pearl harbor and we're sunk, that likely would have been the end of the war. even if the US wanted to enter the war, they would have been incredibly behind as Japan steam rolls over the Eastern Pacific.
Japan would have been nuked even if it army had been squeaky clean, which obviously it was not.
The nukes were not 'revenge'. They were an exercise of power. An attestation to the fact that the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must, just like the Japanese did in China.