I know it sounds like an SJW thing to say, but you cannot have a competent debate with someone who truly holds leftist values.
I know this paints with a broad brush like reddit's "All cops are bad" or "all white people are implicitly white supremacist", but in the case of leftists it's true, for the same reason Scientologists don't engage in debates, or Mormons.
Because when a belief is completely outside of reality, the person holding that belief falls into 1 of 2 categories.
The ignorant and the blind, who when faced with countering viewpoints, would rather just shut the whole thing down with rhetoric and cognitive dissonance rather than face some uncomfortable truths. Many on the left fall into this category which is why they don't typically engage with conservatives despite us being more than willing to engage with them.
People who are not ignorant, but rather intelligently and with full knowledge embrace the ideology with all of its' radical insanity. Why they do this could be many things. Maybe there's something they think some sort of communist revolution will get them. Maybe they hate America and want to see it fall. Maybe they're anti-Christian and want an "anything goes" pagan morality to be the law of the land. There's many reasons, but everyone who falls into this category has theirs, or maybe a combination of reasons.
Someone "coming across the aisle" to have some sort of debate, does not fall into the first category. If an ideology is cultish enough, which the leftist ideology is at this point, then anyone even giving the impression of reason rather than insulation falls into option 2, and it's just a matter of how well they hide it.
Now are there exceptions that prove the rule? Very possible, but I've yet to see them.
political differences can be discussed and engaged with such as "what's the best way to fix infrastructure problems, how do we decrease the national debt, how do we get unemployment down, etc". But once a political party starts saying that men can get pregnant and that there should be drag queen story hour for children, you've left the arena of intelligence and reason and entered into the realm of a cult, and the engagement with a cult is totally different. There's no reasoning with Jim Jones adherents or the Manson family. The only thing you can do with cultists is try to shake them until they sober up and if that fails, you ban them from polite society. There's no debate or reasoning to be had with genuine cultists.
The first group is easy because they don't think linearly from principle to derive moral rules like fully actualized humans. In this way they aren't really any different than most normies. What they believe is down to chance rather than anything else. But normies can't be considered to have a self so it's by the by.
For the second group, is far more akin to an alien race. What they believe is completely logical and consistent. They start from a different value set than most of humanity however and that leads to conclusions that seem ludicrous.
Your system of language and values DOESNT HAVE ready made definitions for what they are, which is why it's a struggle to map them appropriately in your picture of the world. Like trying to plot four dimensional objects on paper, it just doesn't fit.
I know it sounds like an SJW thing to say, but you cannot have a competent debate with someone who truly holds leftist values.
I know this paints with a broad brush like reddit's "All cops are bad" or "all white people are implicitly white supremacist", but in the case of leftists it's true, for the same reason Scientologists don't engage in debates, or Mormons.
Because when a belief is completely outside of reality, the person holding that belief falls into 1 of 2 categories.
The ignorant and the blind, who when faced with countering viewpoints, would rather just shut the whole thing down with rhetoric and cognitive dissonance rather than face some uncomfortable truths. Many on the left fall into this category which is why they don't typically engage with conservatives despite us being more than willing to engage with them.
People who are not ignorant, but rather intelligently and with full knowledge embrace the ideology with all of its' radical insanity. Why they do this could be many things. Maybe there's something they think some sort of communist revolution will get them. Maybe they hate America and want to see it fall. Maybe they're anti-Christian and want an "anything goes" pagan morality to be the law of the land. There's many reasons, but everyone who falls into this category has theirs, or maybe a combination of reasons.
Someone "coming across the aisle" to have some sort of debate, does not fall into the first category. If an ideology is cultish enough, which the leftist ideology is at this point, then anyone even giving the impression of reason rather than insulation falls into option 2, and it's just a matter of how well they hide it.
Now are there exceptions that prove the rule? Very possible, but I've yet to see them.
political differences can be discussed and engaged with such as "what's the best way to fix infrastructure problems, how do we decrease the national debt, how do we get unemployment down, etc". But once a political party starts saying that men can get pregnant and that there should be drag queen story hour for children, you've left the arena of intelligence and reason and entered into the realm of a cult, and the engagement with a cult is totally different. There's no reasoning with Jim Jones adherents or the Manson family. The only thing you can do with cultists is try to shake them until they sober up and if that fails, you ban them from polite society. There's no debate or reasoning to be had with genuine cultists.
Destiny got soundly defeated in two different pro life debates on the whatever podcast, once by Lila rose and once by Trent horn.
He's just an evil, bitter, typical atheist
You've mischaracterized the second group.
The first group is easy because they don't think linearly from principle to derive moral rules like fully actualized humans. In this way they aren't really any different than most normies. What they believe is down to chance rather than anything else. But normies can't be considered to have a self so it's by the by.
For the second group, is far more akin to an alien race. What they believe is completely logical and consistent. They start from a different value set than most of humanity however and that leads to conclusions that seem ludicrous.
Your system of language and values DOESNT HAVE ready made definitions for what they are, which is why it's a struggle to map them appropriately in your picture of the world. Like trying to plot four dimensional objects on paper, it just doesn't fit.
I’ve had some great debates with Mormons.