trannies taking the whole LGBT down with them
(media.kotakuinaction2.win)
You're viewing a single comment thread. View all comments, or full comment thread.
Comments (54)
sorted by:
And a world where everyone shares everything and greed isn't a factor to create suffering is a better one than the current capitalistic system we have now. Where everybody gets good paying jobs to live and thrive instead of homeless and poor having to exist. Because of course those are the only two options are we are just choosing to have the worst one because reasons.
Creating a binary of "the best possible outcome" and comparing it to the "worst possible extreme" to make one side seem totally fine is such a Leftist Manipulation Tactic that its below your intelligence level to use. Come on man.
I was going to say something about his example as well, but I'm glad you addressed it.
I'm painting a stark contrast on purpose to identify the problem with the concept of "ought" as "legally required". The two shouldn't be conflated.
This is because "ought" is the optimal outcome, and "legally required" is the absolute minimum standard of conduct to be tolerated by society.
Consenting, happy, private, homosexuals fall well within the minimum requirements of society, even if they "ought not" be the standard relationship.
Whereas, heterosexual relationships "ought" to be the norm within a society, but not when they have already failed in other major ways.
The issue is not the homosexual or heterosexual distinction. The issue is the pathological behavior which needs to be regulated.
Put it like this: Matt Walsh wants to ban Pitt Bulls because they are generally dangerous to society and can maul people. He gets shit on for that because it is entirely possible for pitt bulls to be owned without harming anyone; but he's trying to point out that the state should enforce what "ought" to be the case through coercion, as if it were the minimum standard.
If he was taken seriously, we're not just talking about banning pitt bulls. We're talking about rounding them up and executing them. But not just pitt bulls, wolf-dogs, Dobermans, most if not all rescue dogs, large reptiles, snakes, falcons, all poisonous or venomous animals (like frogs), basically all spiders, many poisonous fish, etc, etc. And not just from private home owners, but from anyone, including businesses, because they are too dangerous to be allowed to potentially break free.
Walsh wants the government to create an affirmative vision of the future. A lot of conservatives do. That is not what the word "ought" means. The government CAN NOT build an affirmative vision of the future. It can only steal social responsibility to enforce "ought" form society, and use that as a weapon to coerce and destroy. The government can't keep Pitt Bulls from killing babies. All it can do is kill every pitt bull, every aggressive dog, every aggressive dog breed, and most exotic animals within it's jurisdiction purge all of society of a potential threat. Those are not the same thing, and shouldn't be considered the same.
Criminalizing Homosexuality is the same problem. As others have said, it is a symptom of a larger social failure. The government can't solve social failures. Killing, imprisoning, or castrating gays isn't going to solve the underlying social problem. Conservatives struggle to understand that the government can't solve that social problem, and that they have to do it themselves.
Does that make more sense?
This sounds like an idealist position that doesn't track with history. Governments (not arguing they were all good governments) have always set rules on what people ought to do, and over time that changed culture. Your example with pit bulls does not disprove that purging society of the threat actually did remove the threat of them killing babies. The other dogs were not as much of a threat. Applied over time, the affirmative vision that "certain dogs are dangerous and should be banned by the government" would be implanted in the population. Countries like Iran do have a lot of problems and a weird relationship with gays, but their president was generally correct when he said "we don't have that problem here". (when asked about gay rights) Faggotry and whatever negatives it leads to is a blip on the radar there. Most people living under that government agree with the policy in large part because the law set an "ought to" rule as the minimum standard for culture. Problems of heterosexual relationships are a separate issue.
I lean libertarian and would prefer no laws at all, but I can separate my ideal vision from reality. The larger problem in America is we have an empire (the federal government) imposing a set of cultural standards on every state, overturning laws on behavior that the people wanted. San Francisco should be allowed to have Pride orgies in the streets and Alabama should be allowed to sterilize suspected gays. It's probably too late to go back to that standard because the poison has set in across the western world.
Sure, it's a philosophically Liberal position.
Yes, the traditional method is the government creating an affirmative vision by democide, crushing dissent, and creating unchallengeable institutions of power that have the right to kill and impoverish your family at all times, for any reasons.
As such, I admit that I'm not being objective enough to the level of argument your making. Yes, as with Italian Elite Theory, you can crush dissent and freedom enough to compel a population to be a race of slaves in your imperial fashion. That's been done many times, and many imperial citizens are very fond of their empire, their place in it, and murdering their specified opponents. I do not reject that illiberal empires and tyrannies can, and will, do this.
Great. Now, I live in the United States, a country founded as a Revolutionary Liberal Republic, whereby individual liberty is to be respected at the cost of the government; and that passed on Anglo Protestantism, our moral framework denies our institutions the authority of God; and which mandates the responsibility of moral conduct on the individual alone.
As such, I want to preserve those structures (or at least build something to replace the ones that have been destroyed) so that I don't need to live in an illiberal imperial hell hole.
Sure, the Empire of Columbia must fall. That's precisely what I'm asking for. I'm not interested in seizing the empire to enact my will. We had a republic before, I'd like to go back to that.
As for the poison, I strongly disagree. If anything, the rise of European Liberalism is effectively a fluke of history that would not have ordinarily risen were it not for multiple geographic and political coincidences. Frankly, I see an era of less collectivism and authoritarianism than we have seen in the 20th century (which is probably the worst collectivism and totalitarianism has ever been). Totalitarianism, even in eras before Liberalism, was very rare. Even in full autocracies, you would not expect totalitarianism. You'd need something akin to the Egyptian Pharos or Assyrian Empire (the Cult of Ishtar) to get to anything similar to what we had in Cambodia, Germany, or the Soviet Union.
It's a long argument that I won't draw out here, but suffice it to say: the industrial age and the rise of Leftism created a perfect storm of human commodification and political rationalism that have ravaged the Earth for 200 years, and it is now coming to an end. Our elites are hoping that the digital age will be the final epoch that turns us all into a borg collective to serve the vision of the anointed, but it has actually allowed for the individuation of firepower and economics which has literally never been seen in human history. As such, the individuation of politics will likely succeed over the coming century, displacing the old Fabian Socialist order that is currently dying.
It does. I don't agree entirely but that's at least a well thought out idea and argument.
That's all I hope for.