P90 is a nifty little carbine that will always be held back by the shitty 5.7x28mm cartridge it is chambered in. About the only US based agency or department that still uses it is the Secret Service, and only because they can get real deal AP ammo for it. Down range terminal effectiveness is just not there, and with the proliferation of M-4geries as patrol rifles, the market for the P90 is basically gone.
A P90 isn't a carbine, it's a PDW, it's not meant to be used as a carbine.
If you're in a jet fighter, a submarine, a tank, an helicopter, etc... every available room is prime estate and if something happen, you don't want to be stuck somewhere waiting for help with a pistol since there's no room for a rifle there, that's when PDW come into play.
It doesn't matter if the trigger is shitty, it's meant to be used in full auto and the damn things is a hardcore force multiplier now that you understand what's the point of a PDW and in comparaison to what's available on the market.
Compared to a P90, the PP2000, VZ61, Magpul abomination, G18, etc... are all inferior to it, the only thing that come remotely close is the Kriss Vector but who the fuck use .45 ACP for military application nowadays?
At the end of the day, the stopping power of your caliber is irrelevant, it's how much lead you can carry and send down there that win a firefight (in a military setting) for the past 40 years since asymmetrical warfare is all the rage.
For you civilian lads a good semi is preferable since you don't have access to the fun switches (which is a gimmick anyway, most scenarios that force you to switch to full usually involve you being fucked) hence why the AK is still king.
Thank you for pointing out the operational niche of the P90. It's excellent at what it was designed for. Just because it's not a flexible platform like the AR doesn't mean it's bad. 50 round magazine in a compact package. The 5.7 provides AP capability; it needs to be thought of as an upgrade over 9mm PDWs, not a downgrade from 5.56 SBRs. Yes it won't fragment like 5.56, but it won't have the sheer concussion and noise that a 10.5" AR would. It's already significant in a standard barrel configuration, now imagine that blast 8 inches closer to your face in a bullpup.
It's the difference between flipping a light switch with your finger vs. flipping it with a stick. The tradeoff for the bullpup's space-saving design is a much longer trigger-sear linkage, which means a heavy, spongy, shitty trigger pull.
To each their own, I suppose, especially since I have no problem with people exploring and testing different ideas. I don't have the gun collection itch that some do. Bullpups are cool concepts, but I like and can effectively use the guns I have just fine. LaRue's 2 stage trigger for the AR-15 platform has spoiled me when it comes to triggers.
Houston PD SWAT used them for a while in the early 2000s. The officer involved shootings they had with them demonstrated that they only worked to get fast stops if you dumped half a mag into the perp.
No Bueno.
They got rid of them and went to M-4 pattern carbines, 5.56 terminal effectiveness is quite good at urban ranges.
5.7x28 has about the same power as .22 Magnum, and has terminal effectiveness to match.
Heckler Under Cock is the reason why NATO never adopted the P90. Their shitty MP7 lost and they threw a hissy fit and vetoed the adoption.
P90 is a nifty little carbine that will always be held back by the shitty 5.7x28mm cartridge it is chambered in. About the only US based agency or department that still uses it is the Secret Service, and only because they can get real deal AP ammo for it. Down range terminal effectiveness is just not there, and with the proliferation of M-4geries as patrol rifles, the market for the P90 is basically gone.
was a sick looking gun in stargate SG1 though
don't you talk shit about my raifu
A P90 isn't a carbine, it's a PDW, it's not meant to be used as a carbine. If you're in a jet fighter, a submarine, a tank, an helicopter, etc... every available room is prime estate and if something happen, you don't want to be stuck somewhere waiting for help with a pistol since there's no room for a rifle there, that's when PDW come into play.
It doesn't matter if the trigger is shitty, it's meant to be used in full auto and the damn things is a hardcore force multiplier now that you understand what's the point of a PDW and in comparaison to what's available on the market. Compared to a P90, the PP2000, VZ61, Magpul abomination, G18, etc... are all inferior to it, the only thing that come remotely close is the Kriss Vector but who the fuck use .45 ACP for military application nowadays?
At the end of the day, the stopping power of your caliber is irrelevant, it's how much lead you can carry and send down there that win a firefight (in a military setting) for the past 40 years since asymmetrical warfare is all the rage.
For you civilian lads a good semi is preferable since you don't have access to the fun switches (which is a gimmick anyway, most scenarios that force you to switch to full usually involve you being fucked) hence why the AK is still king.
Thank you for pointing out the operational niche of the P90. It's excellent at what it was designed for. Just because it's not a flexible platform like the AR doesn't mean it's bad. 50 round magazine in a compact package. The 5.7 provides AP capability; it needs to be thought of as an upgrade over 9mm PDWs, not a downgrade from 5.56 SBRs. Yes it won't fragment like 5.56, but it won't have the sheer concussion and noise that a 10.5" AR would. It's already significant in a standard barrel configuration, now imagine that blast 8 inches closer to your face in a bullpup.
The P90 also doesn't have a good trigger. Small gripe, but still. Apparently this is common problem with bullpups.
It's the difference between flipping a light switch with your finger vs. flipping it with a stick. The tradeoff for the bullpup's space-saving design is a much longer trigger-sear linkage, which means a heavy, spongy, shitty trigger pull.
To each their own, I suppose, especially since I have no problem with people exploring and testing different ideas. I don't have the gun collection itch that some do. Bullpups are cool concepts, but I like and can effectively use the guns I have just fine. LaRue's 2 stage trigger for the AR-15 platform has spoiled me when it comes to triggers.
I see the P90 being used by like police and hostage rescue that may or may not be shooting through armor, but where overpenetration is always a risk.
Houston PD SWAT used them for a while in the early 2000s. The officer involved shootings they had with them demonstrated that they only worked to get fast stops if you dumped half a mag into the perp.
No Bueno.
They got rid of them and went to M-4 pattern carbines, 5.56 terminal effectiveness is quite good at urban ranges.
5.7x28 has about the same power as .22 Magnum, and has terminal effectiveness to match.