Doing a short course atm. Was having a discussion around job applications and cover letters specifically.
We were told not to include any gendered terms, such as Sir/Madam, Mr/Ms, etc, because "In our modern era, you don't know whether the person you are addressing fits into those categories, even if you know their name" and "You should only ever use a first name, to avoid causing offence" (i.e. no "Mr Adams" or "Ms Smith")...
This is insane to me. I know this will obviously vary by country, but for an instructor to pass that off as some sort of "a given", or even like "You should already know that, you goddamn troglodyte" is... Pretty concerning, to me.
First it was "Use my preferred pronouns, bigot", and now it's "All gendered terms of address are offensive and outdated, bigot". In goddamn formal communications.
Madness. We really are at a cultural dead end.
Or you could deliberately use titles to weed out employers who put insane people in charge of HR.
Laughs in one-way video interviews Oh, it’s even worse than you imagine…
You literally have to film yourself answering the questions (at least some of), for most of these applications now, if you even get past the résumé stage…
Why? Well, you know why. They’ve thought of this too, I’m afraid…
So unless you want to wear blackface on video, or something, that “weeding out” stage is pretty much inevitable…
Post-Covid/Floyd, I might add…
I do not think that is a coincidence.
It’s mostly for “entry level positions”, which means that people who can avoid having to go for those may be able to avoid it, for now…
But yeah, I agree.
You’d be surprised by just how fucking apathetic they all are, though. Even when it comes to shit like this.
“Oh well, I suppose it’s only fair” or “I’m sure there’s a good reason for it”, or alternatively “Nah, that’s not why. They just want to see how you perform on camera!”
I’ve heard if all, now.
As with so much of this, by slowly boiling the frog, and treating dissenters (you and I, for example) as heretics, this shit slowly but surely becomes normalized, and “accepted” by the masses…
Unfortunately.
Yep. Since at least the last year or so…
You can’t get through to the next stage of the “recruitment process” without it, at these companies, now. And they put a restrictive time limit on it, too, so if you’re not “prepared”, you’re shit out of luck. It’s extremely annoying…
Oh don’t worry, I feel the same…
Unfortunately I have to actually live here, though.
If I could afford to leave, I would, lol…
One day. If I make it that far… 😒
But yeah, don’t apologize - I entirely understand the sentiment, lol…
This is something I’ve actually seen people do firsthand and here’s the rub of reality, this only flies with stage one interviews with the hr scrub whose only real job is filtering down candidates. When you get to the second and third round interviews you best believe you better make every single interaction a miss/ mr. let the stupid twat teach that and watch the morons that listen get passed over the second they call their potential by their first name in a face to face interview.
Yeah. I know "better" (though the submission she will be seeing will obviously be very different to what I actually use to apply for jobs, lol. I can pretend), but who knows how many of the other proles don't - that's the thing...
Like, for some of them, they might actually take that to heart, and use first names only, like she told us, from now on...
Which, I suppose, may negatively impact them until they learn otherwise.
Or it may not.
Either way, it's crazy that this is being taught as a legit thing, to a large group of adults in this course.
That seems mad, even in clown world...
I always start with Aloha. It skips stuff, and shows I am multicultural. Then I end with Mahalo. It's worked so far.
Any company that would entertain such nonsense aimed at their employees is not a business I want to be employed at. So if this is the case, I will eagerly use such titles as a method of filtering out the companies that don't respect their employees.
HR is absolutely full of social justice losers that love pronouns. Since your application has to pass through HR first at most major corporations, this is good advice.
One thing I'd note though is that if you know the name of the person you're sending your application to, why don't you know their pronouns? You should at that point. If you got the name from a website then if the pronouns were obscure you can bet they would have been listed right after the person's name on the website to the public. If it just so happens that it's not a social justice thing but it's one of those circumstances where it's say a woman with the name Jordan and you assumed it was a man, this mixup happens all the time so even if you get it wrong, everyone in the office will just get a chuckle out of it. If anything, the mistake will make you more human. It won't impact your job outcome. If it did, you wouldn't want to work for Ms. Jordan anyway. The point I'm getting at is by the time you have a name for a job application you should have their pronouns anyway.
From my experience there are people who don't care if you use the gendered terms and just use their names, however this is after they give you permission to speak casually to them (of course this only applies to times when there is a clear difference in hierarchy) so you should always address them in the most formal way possible until they tell you otherwise.
That said I'm not in America (or any of the other very infected places) so it may differ. Though never use the "Sir/Madam" or "Mr/Ms" style on emails as nothing screams "I put in no effort whatsoever" than an email that starts with "Hello Sir/Madam last name ", basic research on who you're dealing with can go a long way.
Then again I also skipped most HR interactions so far so not the most qualified to speak on what causes those parasites to trash CVs that are sent in
What would you suggest then, instead of, say, “Good Morning Mr X”..? You just mean use their full name, or..?
But yeah, in theory, I definitely agree. This is also in a formal, letter format, so I really don’t agree with what she was telling us (first name only) today. Hence this post.
But as you say, HR, and even getting through so that your fucking résumé is actually read, rather than just disregarded, is such a bullshit game that it’s hard to know what practices each individual company is following these days, lol…
I meant that some people actually put Sir/Madam (as in they don't choose one but put both in the email) which makes it sound like you didn't bother to look up anything about the person and instead cover your ass by putting both.
As for how to start "Good morning Mr X." Is definitely the way I'd go about it. Also, at least around here, some people like to use stuff like Dr when they have a doctorate so if you find that out and start with " Good morning Dr X" you tend to get an even better start.
As a business owner (still small and struggling though) I'd more likely read something that starts with "Good Morning Mr. X" or just " Mr. X" than the ones that start with "Mr/Ms X" that kind of disregard for the actual person I'll only accept from my government (cause I don't have a choice)
Hopefully I can strangle HR in my own business to avoid infestation.
Edit: Also bare in mind that in my language you can tell gender from how the 1st name ends so no reason not choose either Sir or Madam
Oh I see, yes. I understand now, gotcha.
Yeah, that is how I would go about it, too…
Which is, notably, the opposite, essentially, of what she was saying (sort of. You get the idea, at least!)…
Her advice was....retarded to say the least.
Generally for the email you want two major things. Show formality (as it's not only important when dealing with your boss but also with clients) and that you did some research.
All the other stuff (previous experience, your qualifications and so on) should be in the annexed CV.
As for what I'd write....well it's been over a decade since I've done one but something like:
"Good morning Mr. X
I am Z and I am looking for a job as a (insert job title). I've seen that your business handles (insert work they do) and I think I'd be a good fit given (your relevant qualifications, just important bits as your full ones will be in CV).
I hope to hear back a favourable response and thank you for your time"
I'd probably have to correct for translations and cultural differences but generally I'd go with something like that while including things that show I did my research on their business as much as possible
Edit: also if you have an official title for the person you are sending it to that is better than Mr.
Doctor/Director and so forth
Bamb1, I don't think you've ever met an educator, at least not from your posts here. You seem to have the misfortune of being born in a place that has entirely surrounded you with Bolsheviks and activists.
Depends how we’re defining “education”, innit? 😜
I’m sure she classes herself as an educator. Which doesn’t refute your point in any way, of course.
But then “educator” sounds more suitably dystopian than “teacher”, anyway!
I see your point, but this is the way, here, now…
“Trainers” and “educators” are really just “brainwashers” and “box tickers”. You’re not wrong about that much.
The woketards will censor themselves out of existence, especially if they keep promoting Islam.
If it's a large organization, then chances are you won't even know who the letter is going to. I just put "Dear Sir/Madam," to cover my bases. If I actually know who it's going to, then I will use their appropriate title. If I can't figure out what their appropriate title is, then I default back to sir/madam.
This same "educator" goes on and on about "body wisdom" and the gut as "a second brain" (yeah, yeah, the gut is important, but holy shit that's not it)...
Man, the pseudoscience is strong with these freaks...
Just got made to watch this, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXy__kBVq1M&t=154s
More pretentious bullshit. I used to nod along with crap like this. But it's so fucking condescending, my god...
I thought we had moved on from believing shit like this, but evidently not...
Where would a title be other than the greeting of the cover letter? If someone called me up all angry about “misgendering” them there, my first reaction would be shock that they read any part of a cover letter.
Doesn’t work like that here…
Cover letters are semi-mandatory, even for entry level positions in customer service…
Just as an extra “hoop” to jump through, I guess…
But yeah, especially at smaller, more local companies, they’re essentially unavoidable…