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19
So...#FreeTheLeopards is a thing... (twitter.com)
posted 3 years ago by Kienan 3 years ago by Kienan +19 / -0
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– TheModernDaVinci 4 points 3 years ago +4 / -0

But Germany doesn't have that many tanks. If you send them to Ukraine, they are getting knocked out because the Ukranians won't be able to use them properly, nor maintain them.

For further proof of issues with non-trained armies using Western tanks: Germany sold some Leopards to Turkey, and then Turkey deployed them to fight the Kurds. They got absolutely fubbernucked. It wasnt just that the Kurds had well entrenched AT-missile positions, it was also that the Turks were not following the required combat doctrine of the Leopard. Specifically, they had some of the ammo racks loaded that are supposed to be left unloaded in a combat scenario because they are both in exposed positions and have limited safety features. So they were getting their tanks ammo-racked and then cussing the Germans out for giving them "defective" tanks. And this is before we get into the issue of the Turks sending their tanks in alone without infantry support.

I will give Ukraine some credit in that they have had their own tanks, so they would probably be able to maintain them, but I do agree with you that they dont have the tactical knowledge. From all of the video I have seen, Ukrainian tanks have been operating more like jackals, just picking off targets of opportunity and then getting the fuck out before they suffer significant return fire.

Ironically, the AMX-10RC's the French are talking about sending may be more up Ukraine's alley. Because while the Ukrainian tank forces have been opportunity hunters, Ukrainian light vehicles (like the Humvee's they have been using) have been possessed by the spirit of 19th Century cavalry officers. Where they will charge across an open field into enemy fire and somehow not only not die, but also utterly rout the enemy. So a high speed armored car with a tank-grade gun is probably exactly what they need.

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– Gizortnik 3 points 3 years ago +3 / -0

it was also that the Turks were not following the required combat doctrine of the Leopard

This is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about. Tanks aren't just tanks. They are, in and of themselves, built into a pre-existing fighting doctrine and combined arms manual. You buy a tank? Cool, but it wasn't built for you. You're going to have to figure out how to make it work in your doctrine, or you have to take the Israeli route and "modify" the tank into something entirely different.

I will give Ukraine some credit in that they have had their own tanks, so they would probably be able to maintain them

They have thier tanks. Or should I say: Soviet tanks. Same problem.

So a high speed armored car with a tank-grade gun is probably exactly what they need.

I'm not surprised. It reminds me of the "Toyota War" in Chad. You strap a few Mark 19's to those sumbitches and it will do exactly the same thing a 19th century heavy cavalry charge would do: immediately route all nearyby infantry.

I don't care how advanced your army is. Two things are always true in every time period:

  • Violence Of Action is the most important feature of combat that can (for a short time) defeat equipment, training, leadership, competence, and morale.
  • 1000 rounds a minute, of whatever, causes suppression.
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