I have talked to people like that and it's willful ignorance. You point out that people will naturally leech off a system that let's them - it's human nature - and they pretend not to believe you. You tell them that providing illegals welfare will encourage even more illegal immigrants and they say that's a good thing. Whether it's Hispanic "undocumented workers" in the US or African and Arab "refugees" in Europe, they'll assure you that 100% of them are hard workers who just want to take care of their families and will add more to the system than they take, no exceptions. They aren't taking jobs from us, they're taking jobs nobody wants. Tell them horror stories of immigrants committing crimes and they will rattle off a bunch of sCieNcE articles that are supposed to prove that more welfare makes the economy better, and by "giving people a hand up" they'll almost always use that money to improve their lot and get a job or start a business so they won't need it anymore. The discussion may even wander to the promising future of UBI where we'll all live in a utopia and do whatever inspires us - funded by taxpayers - and that will somehow make the economy better than it is today.