An atheist basically doesn't believe in god or a deity. They can sometimes even claim "spirituality" for whatever reason.
An anti-theist is arguing that the concept of worshiping a god is actually wrong. You're not just saying there isn't a god, you're saying that people should actively stop worshiping a god.
Now, there's plenty of Communist and Marxist Anti-Theists, but I still see Leftism operating as an effective religion, even down to the Marxist argument that it's an "opiate of the masses". Frankly, I think that concept fits social justice causes very well, and the deification of George Floyd makes me argue that they aren't in opposition to religion, they are creating their own.
I take my position more for a Nietzschean approach: "God is dead, and it is we whom have killed him." If you kill God, you've got to take responsibility for that. All the utility of gods and religions, now has to come from something else. Yes, it's true that my life would be easier if I had more formal traditions and ethics to unthinkingly fall back on, but because the very notion of God is effectively dead to me, it means I had to figure it all out, and hilariously came to the same conclusions as a lot of protestants would, but from (what I would argue) are far more well reasoned and well founded foundations than a simple reliance on tradition, and hopefully a book.
My problem with that reliance on religion is that we have clearly seen it bastardized for evil, and even for Leftism, using the trust and faith of those institutions as a weapon to corrupt and destroy the lives of the innocent. Fundamentally, my argument is that churches can't be trusted with the concept of God (that which is the objective immortal truth, and the path of righteousness). The worst form of the church is when weak-willed people pass off the responsibility of interrogating their own beliefs to the authority of the church, and are headed like lemmings into evil. I refer to these people as "Jesus Take The Wheel" Christians.
I have far more in common with protestants who understand their lives as a religious journey to discover how God "reveals himself" to them through their lives on an individual basis. This is a perspective that at least operates off of the premise of responsibility to find God/Truth in things.
I prefer if they didn't ascribe all of the ways of the universe to, what is ostensibly, a magical figure. Magical Thinking must be avoided in order to live in truth, but concept of God itself is Magical Thinking.
Perhaps the best way to think about it would be: reversing the question that I always got: "What if you're wrong?"
It's pretty easy for an Atheist to respond to "What if there's a God". That's pretty fucking straight forward. Then I got everything wrong and St. Peter can be like, "Hey retard, guess what?" and I'll be like, "Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. Look, how can you expect me to believe you exist when: X"
But I think reversing that question is a pretty painful one to a theist. What if, in a horrifying turn of events, I'm right? That there is no God. That there never was a God. That no prayer was answered, and never could be. That there was no afterlife. That there was neither a heaven nor hell. That there was no one to correct the wrongs of the world and bend it towards righteousness. That there is no objective morality that you can expect others to follow. That this one life was absolutely all you get. That no forgiveness can be given. That forgiveness can only be earned from your victims, and they get to chose whether or not to grant it. That every sin, immorality, and wrong action scars you permanently and forever defines who you are, even if you move beyond it. And worst of all: the world was never any other way than this. So whatever you did before you realized that this was the way of things, was wasted time and mistakes you can never get back.
It's a much more severe world than maybe anyone wants to live in. But I think it's true. And if there is a path of righteousness, then it must be a path built on truth. The world I describe is terrifying, but it also requires you to take the most responsibility, and force yourself to live in truth. You really do want to make sure that in a world like that, you don't leave your wife in a huff because you can't really know if she'll survive the trip to the grocery store, and the last thing you'll want to live with was being ashamed of how you treated her the last time you saw her alive... because there isn't a second chance.
A truthful path will be righteous, but it will also be astonishingly severe, and gruelingly difficult to bear, but it must also come with the best outcomes because you took responsibility to never make those mistakes and sins in the first place, because there was never a safety net to catch you. It's astonishingly... conservative.
If you kill God, you'd better be ready to take responsibility for that.
But I think reversing that question is a pretty painful one to a theist. What if, in a horrifying turn of events, I'm right? That there is no God. That there never was a God.
Gosh, than religious people might have tried to live a righteous life for nothing. Dang.
That's the thing; it doesn't matter. If the tenants are good, does it even matter if God is real? If you think that a certain way is a good way to live, what's it matter in the end?
"What if God isn't real?" really isn't that hard or painful of a question. It is what it is.
That no prayer was answered, and never could be.
Again, does it matter? Plenty of religious people feel like their prayers are answered, what really changed?
That there was no one to correct the wrongs of the world and bend it towards righteousness. That there is no objective morality that you can expect others to follow.
But, whether or not you believe in God, plenty of people will behave that way anyway. I don't really see a huge distinction or some big reveal. Not everyone can change the world, but living well is certainly a good start. Whether or not you believe in God, whether or not God is real...everyone can agree that there are sinners in the world; quite a lot of them.
That forgiveness can only be earned from your victims, and they get to chose whether or not to grant it. That every sin, immorality, and wrong action scars you permanently and forever defines who you are, even if you move beyond it.
I think plenty of religious people realize this. Plenty of people find God after some failure or harm, and they realize that's still a part of them, but try to live better going forward. Drug addiction is a great example; there are plenty of converts through church programs. You make amends, try to move forward, but don't forget where you came from, and who you were.
And worst of all: the world was never any other way than this. So whatever you did before you realized that this was the way of things, was wasted time and mistakes you can never get back.
If you're an anti-theist, you must believe that it would be better for everyone to stop believing in religions. You're not just ambivalent about what other people do, you have an active interest in stopping them from believing. Is this a legitimate framing of your opinion?
If so, I don't know know how you can believe that. Do you honestly think the average person (or even the above-average person) is capable or even interested in building their own moral framework and metaphysical view of reality? Strip a man of his religious foundation and you don't create a logical, self directed Übermensch, you create a scared, confused, and easily led fool desperate for a framework with which to interpret his existence. I would say look back at the 20th century for evidence of that, but we have had a stark reminder of how malleable the general public is in the past few years, so you don't even need to go back that far.
Well if there is nothing I wouldn’t know. Granted my belief is based on faith but nobody can truly say what happens after death with full certainty. Even those with NDE experiences. While I believe them it all could be in the mind. I’ve had some paranormal experiences that lead me to believe there is more to life than three physical dimensions. God has always made sense to me but I’ve been going to church as long as I can remember and most of my life life has been mostly traditional/Christian areas.
Even with discoveries on quantum physics or consciousness, you don’t think there could be more outside our physical reality?
Out of curiosity how does that differ from an atheist?
An atheist basically doesn't believe in god or a deity. They can sometimes even claim "spirituality" for whatever reason.
An anti-theist is arguing that the concept of worshiping a god is actually wrong. You're not just saying there isn't a god, you're saying that people should actively stop worshiping a god.
Now, there's plenty of Communist and Marxist Anti-Theists, but I still see Leftism operating as an effective religion, even down to the Marxist argument that it's an "opiate of the masses". Frankly, I think that concept fits social justice causes very well, and the deification of George Floyd makes me argue that they aren't in opposition to religion, they are creating their own.
I take my position more for a Nietzschean approach: "God is dead, and it is we whom have killed him." If you kill God, you've got to take responsibility for that. All the utility of gods and religions, now has to come from something else. Yes, it's true that my life would be easier if I had more formal traditions and ethics to unthinkingly fall back on, but because the very notion of God is effectively dead to me, it means I had to figure it all out, and hilariously came to the same conclusions as a lot of protestants would, but from (what I would argue) are far more well reasoned and well founded foundations than a simple reliance on tradition, and hopefully a book.
My problem with that reliance on religion is that we have clearly seen it bastardized for evil, and even for Leftism, using the trust and faith of those institutions as a weapon to corrupt and destroy the lives of the innocent. Fundamentally, my argument is that churches can't be trusted with the concept of God (that which is the objective immortal truth, and the path of righteousness). The worst form of the church is when weak-willed people pass off the responsibility of interrogating their own beliefs to the authority of the church, and are headed like lemmings into evil. I refer to these people as "Jesus Take The Wheel" Christians.
I have far more in common with protestants who understand their lives as a religious journey to discover how God "reveals himself" to them through their lives on an individual basis. This is a perspective that at least operates off of the premise of responsibility to find God/Truth in things.
I prefer if they didn't ascribe all of the ways of the universe to, what is ostensibly, a magical figure. Magical Thinking must be avoided in order to live in truth, but concept of God itself is Magical Thinking.
Interesting. I’m a Protestant Christian but you definitely have some interesting thoughts.
Perhaps the best way to think about it would be: reversing the question that I always got: "What if you're wrong?"
It's pretty easy for an Atheist to respond to "What if there's a God". That's pretty fucking straight forward. Then I got everything wrong and St. Peter can be like, "Hey retard, guess what?" and I'll be like, "Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. Look, how can you expect me to believe you exist when: X"
But I think reversing that question is a pretty painful one to a theist. What if, in a horrifying turn of events, I'm right? That there is no God. That there never was a God. That no prayer was answered, and never could be. That there was no afterlife. That there was neither a heaven nor hell. That there was no one to correct the wrongs of the world and bend it towards righteousness. That there is no objective morality that you can expect others to follow. That this one life was absolutely all you get. That no forgiveness can be given. That forgiveness can only be earned from your victims, and they get to chose whether or not to grant it. That every sin, immorality, and wrong action scars you permanently and forever defines who you are, even if you move beyond it. And worst of all: the world was never any other way than this. So whatever you did before you realized that this was the way of things, was wasted time and mistakes you can never get back.
It's a much more severe world than maybe anyone wants to live in. But I think it's true. And if there is a path of righteousness, then it must be a path built on truth. The world I describe is terrifying, but it also requires you to take the most responsibility, and force yourself to live in truth. You really do want to make sure that in a world like that, you don't leave your wife in a huff because you can't really know if she'll survive the trip to the grocery store, and the last thing you'll want to live with was being ashamed of how you treated her the last time you saw her alive... because there isn't a second chance.
A truthful path will be righteous, but it will also be astonishingly severe, and gruelingly difficult to bear, but it must also come with the best outcomes because you took responsibility to never make those mistakes and sins in the first place, because there was never a safety net to catch you. It's astonishingly... conservative.
If you kill God, you'd better be ready to take responsibility for that.
Gosh, than religious people might have tried to live a righteous life for nothing. Dang.
That's the thing; it doesn't matter. If the tenants are good, does it even matter if God is real? If you think that a certain way is a good way to live, what's it matter in the end?
"What if God isn't real?" really isn't that hard or painful of a question. It is what it is.
Again, does it matter? Plenty of religious people feel like their prayers are answered, what really changed?
But, whether or not you believe in God, plenty of people will behave that way anyway. I don't really see a huge distinction or some big reveal. Not everyone can change the world, but living well is certainly a good start. Whether or not you believe in God, whether or not God is real...everyone can agree that there are sinners in the world; quite a lot of them.
I think plenty of religious people realize this. Plenty of people find God after some failure or harm, and they realize that's still a part of them, but try to live better going forward. Drug addiction is a great example; there are plenty of converts through church programs. You make amends, try to move forward, but don't forget where you came from, and who you were.
What time was wasted?
If you're right I lived a good life trying to help people and at the end nothing happens.
If I'm right you go to hell.
This is not the argument you think it is.
If you're an anti-theist, you must believe that it would be better for everyone to stop believing in religions. You're not just ambivalent about what other people do, you have an active interest in stopping them from believing. Is this a legitimate framing of your opinion?
If so, I don't know know how you can believe that. Do you honestly think the average person (or even the above-average person) is capable or even interested in building their own moral framework and metaphysical view of reality? Strip a man of his religious foundation and you don't create a logical, self directed Übermensch, you create a scared, confused, and easily led fool desperate for a framework with which to interpret his existence. I would say look back at the 20th century for evidence of that, but we have had a stark reminder of how malleable the general public is in the past few years, so you don't even need to go back that far.
Well if there is nothing I wouldn’t know. Granted my belief is based on faith but nobody can truly say what happens after death with full certainty. Even those with NDE experiences. While I believe them it all could be in the mind. I’ve had some paranormal experiences that lead me to believe there is more to life than three physical dimensions. God has always made sense to me but I’ve been going to church as long as I can remember and most of my life life has been mostly traditional/Christian areas.
Even with discoveries on quantum physics or consciousness, you don’t think there could be more outside our physical reality?