But I think reversing that question is a pretty painful one to a theist. What if, in a horrifying turn of events, I'm right? That there is no God. That there never was a God.
Gosh, than religious people might have tried to live a righteous life for nothing. Dang.
That's the thing; it doesn't matter. If the tenants are good, does it even matter if God is real? If you think that a certain way is a good way to live, what's it matter in the end?
"What if God isn't real?" really isn't that hard or painful of a question. It is what it is.
That no prayer was answered, and never could be.
Again, does it matter? Plenty of religious people feel like their prayers are answered, what really changed?
That there was no one to correct the wrongs of the world and bend it towards righteousness. That there is no objective morality that you can expect others to follow.
But, whether or not you believe in God, plenty of people will behave that way anyway. I don't really see a huge distinction or some big reveal. Not everyone can change the world, but living well is certainly a good start. Whether or not you believe in God, whether or not God is real...everyone can agree that there are sinners in the world; quite a lot of them.
That forgiveness can only be earned from your victims, and they get to chose whether or not to grant it. That every sin, immorality, and wrong action scars you permanently and forever defines who you are, even if you move beyond it.
I think plenty of religious people realize this. Plenty of people find God after some failure or harm, and they realize that's still a part of them, but try to live better going forward. Drug addiction is a great example; there are plenty of converts through church programs. You make amends, try to move forward, but don't forget where you came from, and who you were.
And worst of all: the world was never any other way than this. So whatever you did before you realized that this was the way of things, was wasted time and mistakes you can never get back.
Gizortnik, while usually very eloquent and balanced in his thought, gets extremely acerbic and vitriolic when talking about Science (tm). I think we've found his religion.
I had to come back to this because I was closing old browser tabs, and it matters.
If I have zealotry u/DangerCat , it's not The Science, it's truth. If you had read more of my comments, you'd know damn well my position on "I Fucking Love Science" people.
Back to you Kienan.
The existence of your God matters because it is the very core premise of your entire moral framework. If you don't know if God exists, you're not a Christian. Morality must stem from that construct. Otherwise, it stems from... well, there is no Christian answer; there can't be. If God doesn't exist, nothing of what you believe makes any sense, nor is it well founded in anything.
Again, does it matter? Plenty of religious people feel like their prayers are answered, what really changed?
You're missing the point. I'm emphasizing the alternative. It doesn't matter that it feels like. It wasn't. None ever has, and ever will, from anyone. I'm not asking you to defend the idea that other people think prayers works. I'm saying, let us assert that there is no God. By definition, it does not, and can not work. You are doing something that is nothing more than a magical incantation. You are doing something just as ridiculous, useless, and wasteful as 'witches' in Portland. If we assert that God does not exist, and we expound from that. Prayer is no different from "casting Magic Missile". Some of the most meaningful and intimate efforts you have made in your most desperate times of your life, would have been the acts of a silly person deluding themselves into thinking that someone else was going to help them.
I can't imagine that that wouldn't be a painful experience.
But, whether or not you believe in God, plenty of people will behave that way anyway
If you think morality isn't objective, then you aren't religious at all. Not only are you not Christian, you wouldn't even fall into any Abrahamic religion.
I think plenty of religious people realize this.
Again, no religious person would believe that, particularly a Christian. God's forgiveness, is literally the whole point behind why man is allowed to live at all. The greatest gift of The Christ is his forgiveness of all men, of all sin, forever, at the cost of his own life. The value of forgiveness through God, even if your victim isn't involved, is what relieves you of your burden.
If there is no forgiveness, then you have no choice but to live with that burden, forever. It is the entire purpose for why you would worship Him.
What time was wasted?
All of it. Every prayer, every ceremony, every incantation, every second you spent reading, every debate, every donation, every festival, all of it.
Gosh, than religious people might have tried to live a righteous life for nothing. Dang.
That's the thing; it doesn't matter. If the tenants are good, does it even matter if God is real? If you think that a certain way is a good way to live, what's it matter in the end?
"What if God isn't real?" really isn't that hard or painful of a question. It is what it is.
Again, does it matter? Plenty of religious people feel like their prayers are answered, what really changed?
But, whether or not you believe in God, plenty of people will behave that way anyway. I don't really see a huge distinction or some big reveal. Not everyone can change the world, but living well is certainly a good start. Whether or not you believe in God, whether or not God is real...everyone can agree that there are sinners in the world; quite a lot of them.
I think plenty of religious people realize this. Plenty of people find God after some failure or harm, and they realize that's still a part of them, but try to live better going forward. Drug addiction is a great example; there are plenty of converts through church programs. You make amends, try to move forward, but don't forget where you came from, and who you were.
What time was wasted?
Gizortnik, while usually very eloquent and balanced in his thought, gets extremely acerbic and vitriolic when talking about Science (tm). I think we've found his religion.
Yeah, he's usually very good on things, but his view on this honestly seems pretty warped.
I had to come back to this because I was closing old browser tabs, and it matters.
If I have zealotry u/DangerCat , it's not The Science, it's truth. If you had read more of my comments, you'd know damn well my position on "I Fucking Love Science" people.
Back to you Kienan.
The existence of your God matters because it is the very core premise of your entire moral framework. If you don't know if God exists, you're not a Christian. Morality must stem from that construct. Otherwise, it stems from... well, there is no Christian answer; there can't be. If God doesn't exist, nothing of what you believe makes any sense, nor is it well founded in anything.
You're missing the point. I'm emphasizing the alternative. It doesn't matter that it feels like. It wasn't. None ever has, and ever will, from anyone. I'm not asking you to defend the idea that other people think prayers works. I'm saying, let us assert that there is no God. By definition, it does not, and can not work. You are doing something that is nothing more than a magical incantation. You are doing something just as ridiculous, useless, and wasteful as 'witches' in Portland. If we assert that God does not exist, and we expound from that. Prayer is no different from "casting Magic Missile". Some of the most meaningful and intimate efforts you have made in your most desperate times of your life, would have been the acts of a silly person deluding themselves into thinking that someone else was going to help them.
I can't imagine that that wouldn't be a painful experience.
If you think morality isn't objective, then you aren't religious at all. Not only are you not Christian, you wouldn't even fall into any Abrahamic religion.
Again, no religious person would believe that, particularly a Christian. God's forgiveness, is literally the whole point behind why man is allowed to live at all. The greatest gift of The Christ is his forgiveness of all men, of all sin, forever, at the cost of his own life. The value of forgiveness through God, even if your victim isn't involved, is what relieves you of your burden.
If there is no forgiveness, then you have no choice but to live with that burden, forever. It is the entire purpose for why you would worship Him.
All of it. Every prayer, every ceremony, every incantation, every second you spent reading, every debate, every donation, every festival, all of it.