The left will never admit this, but their answer to that question is pretty simple. It's when the thot decides she wants to keep the baby. This allows others who kill the fetus to prosecuted for murder but allows her to shoot the baby in the face on its way out of the womb if she doesn't want it.
Years ago a famous bioethicist stated their position very clearly. A mother has the right to terminate the life of the child at any point, even months after birth. As far as I know he still has a job and has tenure at his university.
They have no trouble telling us that women rule our daily lives, so why do they have a problem telling us that they believe a woman should have unilateral, unchallengeable power to decide who gets the chance to exist?
This can also be extended to later on. She doesn't want the kid anymore? Not a life according to some. Considering infanticide is committed disproportionately by women I am not surprised this is a position some hold.
/u/FuckGenderPolitics is right. Fundamentally, these abortions are value based decisions. The reason that we consider a pregnant woman being punched in the stomach by a burglar to be a murder of a child because the parents are treating the fetus as if it were a child that hadn't come out of the womb yet. The reason, however, that so many Americans are okay with Plan B, and abortions for pregnancies resulting in rape & incest is because the parents are not treating the fetus as a child, and are not at all invested in it.
Value is subjective. Some people invest in the child, others do not. Therefore they value the child differently
The thing is, the Left views the mother's (and only the mother's) choice as sacrosanct, because they basically view the baby as oppression on the mother's will. This is why they don't even say "mother", they say "woman", so that it is understood that she can't be considered a mother until she chooses to recognize the baby. Even when you look at Roe v. Wade, the idea of bodily autonomy wasn't what the "right to abortion" was based on. It was the woman's choice she made that was considered a fundamental right. But there is no such thing as a fundamental right to make choices. The government can strip your right to make decisions and choices sometimes, it just can't do it all the time.
Now, I'm not Christian, so I don't accept a universal objective morality, and I don't hold life to be absolutely sacrosanct. That's one of the reasons why I still believe that war, assassination, and the death penalty are still necessary and useful. It's also clearly evident that women will always commit infanticide to ensure their survival, and rather than punishing women, societies formed entire institutions to prevent women from even having to make that choice. If you are going to tolerate sex out of wedlock, you're going to have to tolerate some amount of abortion, and something like Plan B is effectively the most ethical form of infanticide that can exist.
Fundamentally, I see this as a self-solving problem. Because I'm not Christian, I see no need to save the Left's children. The catastrophically low birth rates among the Left, especially the white Left (somewhere around 0.1 children per family), shows that they will literally not be able to continue the Left's cultural hegemony for even 1 generation. I say: celebrate your abortions.
Order is an emergent property of chaos for this reason.
I'll wager that none of my colleges on the other side will tell us when life begins.
See, here's the thing.
Life doesn't begin at birth.
It begins somewhere along the lines of 3-4 billion years ago if I recall correctly.
Babies are not abeogenic. They are produced by other living things. Life began once, and then simply perpetuated itself ad infenitum. Sexual Reproduction exists to take the genetic code of two parents and re-combine them as a way of preventing disease, and also creating a new immune system capable of withstanding adaptive diseases. This is because nature shows that Asexual Reproduction can cause very quick population growth, but is easily subject to massive population loss from genetic disease as well as regular disease which can propagate through each individuals identical immune system.
This isn't a "checkmate, theists" moment. In fact, it's implication is far more conservative and traditional recognition of reality.
David Starkey talks about how each person is a continuation in the "great chain of civilization". Life, itself, is like that but broader.
You are a great chain of life itself. Life neither begins, nor ends with you, at all. We choose to see you as an individual. Nature has identified that the survival of life requires the propagation of itself. 2 billion years ago you would have been a clone of your father, or a clone of your mother, simply occupying a different place and time. This has become unacceptable for most animals for survival. So, you are a literal continuation of your mother and your father through time, as they were a continuation of their mother and their father, and so on and so forth. Each iteration of life seeks to survive and propagate itself through a harsh environment, taking the most fit parts it can with it.
Perhaps the truth is that abortion is not murder. It's suicide.
The left will never admit this, but their answer to that question is pretty simple. It's when the thot decides she wants to keep the baby. This allows others who kill the fetus to prosecuted for murder but allows her to shoot the baby in the face on its way out of the womb if she doesn't want it.
Years ago a famous bioethicist stated their position very clearly. A mother has the right to terminate the life of the child at any point, even months after birth. As far as I know he still has a job and has tenure at his university.
It takes an ethicist to be that unethical.
I'm actually surprised they don't admit it.
They have no trouble telling us that women rule our daily lives, so why do they have a problem telling us that they believe a woman should have unilateral, unchallengeable power to decide who gets the chance to exist?
This can also be extended to later on. She doesn't want the kid anymore? Not a life according to some. Considering infanticide is committed disproportionately by women I am not surprised this is a position some hold.
/u/FuckGenderPolitics is right. Fundamentally, these abortions are value based decisions. The reason that we consider a pregnant woman being punched in the stomach by a burglar to be a murder of a child because the parents are treating the fetus as if it were a child that hadn't come out of the womb yet. The reason, however, that so many Americans are okay with Plan B, and abortions for pregnancies resulting in rape & incest is because the parents are not treating the fetus as a child, and are not at all invested in it.
Value is subjective. Some people invest in the child, others do not. Therefore they value the child differently
The thing is, the Left views the mother's (and only the mother's) choice as sacrosanct, because they basically view the baby as oppression on the mother's will. This is why they don't even say "mother", they say "woman", so that it is understood that she can't be considered a mother until she chooses to recognize the baby. Even when you look at Roe v. Wade, the idea of bodily autonomy wasn't what the "right to abortion" was based on. It was the woman's choice she made that was considered a fundamental right. But there is no such thing as a fundamental right to make choices. The government can strip your right to make decisions and choices sometimes, it just can't do it all the time.
Now, I'm not Christian, so I don't accept a universal objective morality, and I don't hold life to be absolutely sacrosanct. That's one of the reasons why I still believe that war, assassination, and the death penalty are still necessary and useful. It's also clearly evident that women will always commit infanticide to ensure their survival, and rather than punishing women, societies formed entire institutions to prevent women from even having to make that choice. If you are going to tolerate sex out of wedlock, you're going to have to tolerate some amount of abortion, and something like Plan B is effectively the most ethical form of infanticide that can exist.
Fundamentally, I see this as a self-solving problem. Because I'm not Christian, I see no need to save the Left's children. The catastrophically low birth rates among the Left, especially the white Left (somewhere around 0.1 children per family), shows that they will literally not be able to continue the Left's cultural hegemony for even 1 generation. I say: celebrate your abortions.
Order is an emergent property of chaos for this reason.
See, here's the thing.
Life doesn't begin at birth.
It begins somewhere along the lines of 3-4 billion years ago if I recall correctly.
Babies are not abeogenic. They are produced by other living things. Life began once, and then simply perpetuated itself ad infenitum. Sexual Reproduction exists to take the genetic code of two parents and re-combine them as a way of preventing disease, and also creating a new immune system capable of withstanding adaptive diseases. This is because nature shows that Asexual Reproduction can cause very quick population growth, but is easily subject to massive population loss from genetic disease as well as regular disease which can propagate through each individuals identical immune system.
This isn't a "checkmate, theists" moment. In fact, it's implication is far more conservative and traditional recognition of reality.
David Starkey talks about how each person is a continuation in the "great chain of civilization". Life, itself, is like that but broader.
You are a great chain of life itself. Life neither begins, nor ends with you, at all. We choose to see you as an individual. Nature has identified that the survival of life requires the propagation of itself. 2 billion years ago you would have been a clone of your father, or a clone of your mother, simply occupying a different place and time. This has become unacceptable for most animals for survival. So, you are a literal continuation of your mother and your father through time, as they were a continuation of their mother and their father, and so on and so forth. Each iteration of life seeks to survive and propagate itself through a harsh environment, taking the most fit parts it can with it.
Perhaps the truth is that abortion is not murder. It's suicide.