I tried to say that ebonics ("AAVE") was a fundamentally wrong way to speak and then I was piled on by a bunch of NPCs about how I was wrong.
Wrong in what way though? Yes, it sounds retarded, and people will consider you really stupid if you speak it, but if you look at from a linguistic point of view, it is just another dialect of English.
Because we have a commonly agreed upon written English that is used to standardize education across the nation. Of which, we use to teach our children how to speak at higher levels.
You can talk however you want, but it literally only exists because of how much it "fails" most basic English rules, otherwise it wouldn't be considered big enough to be named over Minnesota or Maine dialects.
it literally only exists because of how much it "fails" most basic English rules
It's not as if "standard English" existed first and Ebonics evolved out of that. It's just a variant of the hillbilly/Southern dialect, which evolved alongside standard English, and is also just as valid as standard English, in linguistic terms. (Note that the PC crowd never defends the hillbilly accent, and they often mock it as people being uneducated and stupid.)
You might as well say that French is a language for idiots and morons because it 'fails' most basic Latin rules. No ablative! Sacre bleu! And Latin is a language for morons because it has only five endings, rather than the eight from Indo-European.
The point is not to defend Ebonics, or to say that it should be taught. It's good for kids to learn to speak standard English, or they will not be able to get ahead in life. The point is that people are raised with different dialects, and that the fact that one dialect is used by the political center is not a reason to have negative judgments about people who speak with a different dialect.
otherwise it wouldn't be considered big enough to be named over Minnesota or Maine dialects.
I'd argue that a dialect, and I speak with one, is a verbal trait. If speaking ebonics was just another dialect, its speakers would have no issues communicating in writing in the common tongue - which emphasises clarity and meaning over whatever it is that dialects communicate.
But that's not what we're observing though, is it? We don't generally see those who speak ebonics switch to writing English proper.
It's almost as if ebonics is the only dialect they know, even after two decades in the education system.
If the Portuguese can pick up English from not dubbing their TV shows, what kind of argument is it that Amercans somehow can't due to an underfunded education system (that spends more per student than any other nation) when they're steeped in the languge?
It's almost as if ebonics is the only dialect they know, even after two decades in the education system.
That's pretty breathtaking, yes.
It's a massive failure of the 'education' system, which apparently focuses on teaching them that they are victims and that they should blame Whitey for everything that goes wrong in their lives.
If I haven't been clear enough, of course everyone should be able to speak the standard version of the language. All I said is that I do not think regional dialects are any lesser, even if those people are unable to speak/write the common tongue. Purely from a linguistic POV, that distinction is arbitrary.
If the Portuguese can pick up English from not dubbing their TV shows, what kind of argument is it that Amercans somehow can't due to an underfunded education system (that spends more per student than any other nation) when they're steeped in the languge?
That's a good question. I myself picked up English from such sources. I once got into a fight with some SJWs, who then didn't believe that I am European and that English is my third language, because it's "too good". They apparently thought that this was an insult.
It's just a variant of the hillbilly/Southern dialect
Did you know the distance between the heart of the Appalachian mountains and most of the South is 500+ miles? Not a strong opening on your knowledge on the topic.
Note that the PC crowd never defends the hillbilly accent, and they often mock it as people being uneducated and stupid
I'm aware, because I have a thick Cajun accent. I was bullied quite heavily by my more "progressive" classmates after I moved because they assumed all sorts of evils because of the way I talk.
They also make the same mistake you keep doing of calling Hillbillies and Southerners interchangable.
But even in my area of the dirty south we were forced to learn to know how to speak and write the agreed upon "standard English" of our education system, and then had our casual relaxed speech for when we weren't in professional environments.
The point is that people are raised with different dialects
Yeah and most of us get dunked on for it, have it forcefully removed from us by the government (Cajun French was nearly eradicated by forceful government measures), and don't get to just cry victim when it gets us judged.
That's the issue people have. AAVE gets special protections and elevated as something sacred that we must not make fun of. Shit it got renamed to make it sound more academic over Ebonics.
I am not sure what this means.
Those two states are famous for having incredibly heavy accents. Unlike AAVE , they still meet most basic English rules so they aren't considered very special (that's why they don't have a special name). Because AAVE is infamous for exactly how wrong it is, we had to make a special name for it.
Did you know the distance between the heart of the Appalachian mountains and most of the South is 500+ miles? Not a strong opening on your knowledge on the topic.
To me, they sound the same.
But even in my area of the dirty south we were forced to learn to know how to speak and write the agreed upon "standard English" of our education system, and then had our casual relaxed speech for when we weren't in professional environments.
And that's the way it should be. What do you think I'm arguing for? Not that Ebonics is perfectly fine and that it should be taught in schools. Only that it is no less valid as a dialect than Standard English.
That's the issue people have. AAVE gets special protections and elevated as something sacred that we must not make fun of. Shit it got renamed to make it sound more academic over Ebonics.
And that is also true. I think I noted that there is a hypocrisy between how the left regards mocking the accents of blacks and Southerners - even though they are rather similar. If you mock blacks with 'dindu', that is racism, but if you mock Southerners, then you're a comedic genius.
Unlike AAVE , they still meet most basic English rules so they aren't considered very special (that's why they don't have a special name). Because AAVE is infamous for exactly how wrong it is, we had to make a special name for it.
I'm pretty sure "AAVE" also meets most basic English rules. Similarly, in places like Philly they say 'yous'.
But note that my point is not about AAVE. It's only that you cannot say that the version of the language spoken in political centers as the 'correct' version and others as 'wrong'. I regard that as elitist and wrong. That doesn't mean that children should not be taught the 'prestige dialect' as it is called for they future.
AAVE, pidgin, they're dialects of english... You know what else is?
Bri'ish. And 'stralian. And 'murrikan.
Just tossing this out here, if we had classes, specific education, on how to talk Australian, and a different one for how to talk American, and a different one for how to talk British, and another for Jamaican, and another for "Black"...
Kids hate English class already, and we only have to teach them one language. English teachers are already at wits end. To add in the more egregious dialects as common core education? Bin tink fluffy tachas no like dat, man.
Hell no, that Ebonics should be taught wasn't at all what I meant. Because unfair though it may be, people are judged for speaking with an Ebonics/hillbilly accent, and you will find less success in your life if you are going around speaking one of these stigmatized accents. Also, people will be less able to understand you.
Ask an ebonics user to produce or even comprehend a writtten or spoken report. Even "What I did in my summer break."
He will not be able to do it!
Now send him to university to read and comprehend textbooks, take classroom notes, and produce summaries, syntheses or analyses of those texts or notes.
What? He can't do it? But ebonics is just as good as standard American English!
Ask an ebonics user to produce or even comprehend a writtten or spoken report. Even "What I did in my summer break."
How does that show that Ebonics is any more or less valid than standard English?
It shows the monumental failure of the American 'educational' system, which appears to just be able indoctrinating children into the cult-like beliefs of the loony teachers.
Now send him to university to read and comprehend textbooks, take classroom notes, and produce summaries, syntheses or analyses of those texts or notes.
Ah, I see that you're trying to say that it is not desirable for a kid to only know Ebonics. I completely agree with that. The point is not that there is no need for a common language that facilitates communication, but only that from an objective standpoint, Ebonics is no better or worse as a language than Standard English.
What? He can't do it? But ebonics is just as good as standard American English!
If all textbooks etc. were written in Ebonics, then that would not make Ebonics any better than Standard English.
Wrong in what way though? Yes, it sounds retarded, and people will consider you really stupid if you speak it, but if you look at from a linguistic point of view, it is just another dialect of English.
That is literally NOT one of the goals of our current society (as dictated by the Rainbow Reich and the Lunatic Leftists).
Because we have a commonly agreed upon written English that is used to standardize education across the nation. Of which, we use to teach our children how to speak at higher levels.
You can talk however you want, but it literally only exists because of how much it "fails" most basic English rules, otherwise it wouldn't be considered big enough to be named over Minnesota or Maine dialects.
It's not as if "standard English" existed first and Ebonics evolved out of that. It's just a variant of the hillbilly/Southern dialect, which evolved alongside standard English, and is also just as valid as standard English, in linguistic terms. (Note that the PC crowd never defends the hillbilly accent, and they often mock it as people being uneducated and stupid.)
You might as well say that French is a language for idiots and morons because it 'fails' most basic Latin rules. No ablative! Sacre bleu! And Latin is a language for morons because it has only five endings, rather than the eight from Indo-European.
The point is not to defend Ebonics, or to say that it should be taught. It's good for kids to learn to speak standard English, or they will not be able to get ahead in life. The point is that people are raised with different dialects, and that the fact that one dialect is used by the political center is not a reason to have negative judgments about people who speak with a different dialect.
I am not sure what this means.
Is it just another diallect though?
I'd argue that a dialect, and I speak with one, is a verbal trait. If speaking ebonics was just another dialect, its speakers would have no issues communicating in writing in the common tongue - which emphasises clarity and meaning over whatever it is that dialects communicate.
But that's not what we're observing though, is it? We don't generally see those who speak ebonics switch to writing English proper.
It's almost as if ebonics is the only dialect they know, even after two decades in the education system.
If the Portuguese can pick up English from not dubbing their TV shows, what kind of argument is it that Amercans somehow can't due to an underfunded education system (that spends more per student than any other nation) when they're steeped in the languge?
That's pretty breathtaking, yes.
It's a massive failure of the 'education' system, which apparently focuses on teaching them that they are victims and that they should blame Whitey for everything that goes wrong in their lives.
If I haven't been clear enough, of course everyone should be able to speak the standard version of the language. All I said is that I do not think regional dialects are any lesser, even if those people are unable to speak/write the common tongue. Purely from a linguistic POV, that distinction is arbitrary.
That's a good question. I myself picked up English from such sources. I once got into a fight with some SJWs, who then didn't believe that I am European and that English is my third language, because it's "too good". They apparently thought that this was an insult.
Did you know the distance between the heart of the Appalachian mountains and most of the South is 500+ miles? Not a strong opening on your knowledge on the topic.
I'm aware, because I have a thick Cajun accent. I was bullied quite heavily by my more "progressive" classmates after I moved because they assumed all sorts of evils because of the way I talk.
They also make the same mistake you keep doing of calling Hillbillies and Southerners interchangable.
But even in my area of the dirty south we were forced to learn to know how to speak and write the agreed upon "standard English" of our education system, and then had our casual relaxed speech for when we weren't in professional environments.
Yeah and most of us get dunked on for it, have it forcefully removed from us by the government (Cajun French was nearly eradicated by forceful government measures), and don't get to just cry victim when it gets us judged.
That's the issue people have. AAVE gets special protections and elevated as something sacred that we must not make fun of. Shit it got renamed to make it sound more academic over Ebonics.
Those two states are famous for having incredibly heavy accents. Unlike AAVE , they still meet most basic English rules so they aren't considered very special (that's why they don't have a special name). Because AAVE is infamous for exactly how wrong it is, we had to make a special name for it.
To me, they sound the same.
And that's the way it should be. What do you think I'm arguing for? Not that Ebonics is perfectly fine and that it should be taught in schools. Only that it is no less valid as a dialect than Standard English.
And that is also true. I think I noted that there is a hypocrisy between how the left regards mocking the accents of blacks and Southerners - even though they are rather similar. If you mock blacks with 'dindu', that is racism, but if you mock Southerners, then you're a comedic genius.
I'm pretty sure "AAVE" also meets most basic English rules. Similarly, in places like Philly they say 'yous'.
But note that my point is not about AAVE. It's only that you cannot say that the version of the language spoken in political centers as the 'correct' version and others as 'wrong'. I regard that as elitist and wrong. That doesn't mean that children should not be taught the 'prestige dialect' as it is called for they future.
AAVE, pidgin, they're dialects of english... You know what else is?
Bri'ish. And 'stralian. And 'murrikan.
Just tossing this out here, if we had classes, specific education, on how to talk Australian, and a different one for how to talk American, and a different one for how to talk British, and another for Jamaican, and another for "Black"...
Kids hate English class already, and we only have to teach them one language. English teachers are already at wits end. To add in the more egregious dialects as common core education? Bin tink fluffy tachas no like dat, man.
Hell no, that Ebonics should be taught wasn't at all what I meant. Because unfair though it may be, people are judged for speaking with an Ebonics/hillbilly accent, and you will find less success in your life if you are going around speaking one of these stigmatized accents. Also, people will be less able to understand you.
Says someone with no background in linguistics.
Ask an ebonics user to produce or even comprehend a writtten or spoken report. Even "What I did in my summer break."
He will not be able to do it!
Now send him to university to read and comprehend textbooks, take classroom notes, and produce summaries, syntheses or analyses of those texts or notes.
What? He can't do it? But ebonics is just as good as standard American English!
A linguistics expert on .win told me so!
How does that show that Ebonics is any more or less valid than standard English?
It shows the monumental failure of the American 'educational' system, which appears to just be able indoctrinating children into the cult-like beliefs of the loony teachers.
Ah, I see that you're trying to say that it is not desirable for a kid to only know Ebonics. I completely agree with that. The point is not that there is no need for a common language that facilitates communication, but only that from an objective standpoint, Ebonics is no better or worse as a language than Standard English.
If all textbooks etc. were written in Ebonics, then that would not make Ebonics any better than Standard English.
As for lingustiics experts... see John McWhorter.