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posted 3 months ago by XBX_X 3 months ago by XBX_X +62 / -6
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– ApexVeritas 0 points 3 months ago +1 / -1

You didn't address the elephant in the room, the biggest point I made: banking.

Dude, companies aren't going to move manufacturing here without tariffs. It just won't happen.

We could, you know, dictate that American companies manufacture in America, or non-American companies which wish to sell in America do all that they can to manufacture in America. Many companies already do this (like car companies). That's what government is supposed to do, enact solutions beneficial for the people. But, since government is corrupt and hates us, we can't expect that to be done. So, in part, I agree with you, that our options are limited, but I still disagree that doing a tariff war right now will be devastating for most people.

So do wages and domestic employment.

Partially yes, but you're ignoring the fact that our wages began to stagnate (stopped keeping up with inflation) in 1971, when Nixon took us off the last vestiges of the gold standard. Trump's "solution" via tariffs, if he doesn't fix inflation and malicious banking practices, won't solve anything. It'll be a bandaid on a gushing wound.

On the flipside, if you have free for all outsourcing and mass immigration, prices go down. We've lived for 30 years under the low price regime and it's time to stop.

You're viewing the world from a modern lens, not realizing how bad things have gotten, and are falling into the false dichotomy trap, that it's an either/or scenario where both solutions fail. Our ancestors made good money, and products were cheap, not even going back to the 50s, 60s, and 70s. That's why fathers back then could work a blue collar job directly out of high school, and within a few years afford a house, a car, and support a wife and several children, without having to work himself to death. We can have good wages and cheap products. It's not an either/or option. But, like I said, this requires quashing bankers and malicious banking practices, which Trump (nor any other current politician) will do. Granted, it would be incredibly foolish to not also clamp down on feminism and mass foreign migration, but the lion's share of our problems stem from bankers.

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– The_Shadow_of_Intent 1 point 3 months ago +1 / -0

You didn't address the elephant in the room, the biggest point I made: banking.

Banking is orthogonal to tariffs. Action in one area doesn't exclude action in another. Also quantitative easing is by far the most obvious contribution to the problems you've mentioned, and Trump's government cuts and tariff revenues are designed to mitigate the circumstances that led to massive QE after 2008.

We could, you know, dictate that American companies manufacture in America, or non-American companies which wish to sell in America do all that they can to manufacture in America.

Command economy thinking is the road to perdition. You can force companies to be financially uncompetitive, sure. The unions forced Hostess to hire workers specifically for unloading bread and workers specifically for pastries. Bankrupt and liquidated in 2012.

Our ancestors made good money, and products were cheap, not even going back to the 50s, 60s, and 70s. That's why fathers back then could work a blue collar job directly out of high school, and within a few years afford a house, a car, and support a wife and several children, without having to work himself to death.

Return to the gold standard would be one of the best things we could do. Regardless, there's no reason to hold back on any other good initiatives.

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– ApexVeritas 1 point 3 months ago +1 / -0

Banking is orthogonal to tariffs. Action in one area doesn't exclude action in another. Also quantitative easing is by far the most obvious contribution to the problems you've mentioned, and Trump's government cuts and tariff revenues are designed to mitigate the circumstances that led to massive QE after 2008.

This is true, but just because they can be tackled independently, does not make them equal issues. I'm talking about the systemic rape of our economic wealth, value of our currency, and national prosperity by malicious bankers and banking practices. As I was trying to point out, trying to improve the economy by hiking tariffs, while completely ignoring the bankers is like trying to put a bandaid on a gushing wound. It won't work. When problems have multiple causes, you address the most egregious first, and work your way down. Trying to get into a tariff war with the entire planet, right now, won't achieve anything other than causing the prices of everything to go up, at a time when people are already struggling to eat and pay their bills.

Also, "quantitative easing" is just money printing. It's one of those malicious banking practices that causes inflation, where they just conjure infinity fake money out of thin air, to fund all their pet projects. It's how BlackRock and Vanguard got all of their start up capital. It's how all the Kalergi plan NGOs get funded. It's how all of our politicians get bought and paid for. It all derives from banking and bankers.

Command economy thinking is the road to perdition. You can force companies to be financially uncompetitive, sure. The unions forced Hostess to hire workers specifically for unloading bread and workers specifically for pastries. Bankrupt and liquidated in 2012.

Are you an anarchist or extreme libertarian? This is precisely what governments are supposed to do, to enact the will of the people, and serve the people's best interests, even by limiting and infringing upon the unlimited scope of businesses, to protect people. This is why our government used to bust monopolies and trusts, to punish insider trading, manipulation of markets, corporate lobbying and preferential treatment, doing away with slave labor and abhorrent corporate treatment of workers. All of those things necessarily resulted in prices going up, but they were for the betterment of the people, because concentration of power in the hands of corporations is just as antagonistic and deadly as it is in the hands of government. People used to understand this nuance.

Hell, the very concept of collectivization (group up) necessarily means that the collective good sometimes outweighs the rights and benefits of the individual, or smaller groups within that structure (i.e. a business). This is why normie right wingers are so obtuse when it comes to proper set up and enactment of governments, nations, communities, and all other groups, because they keep trying to insert individualism as a highest moral virtue, with no other considerations or priorities. Because of the false dichotomy brainwashing surrounding collectivism and individualism, right wingers are trying to make arguments and propose solutions from an incomplete foundation, resulting in all manner of failures.

You can't have a group function, any group, without some form of loss of liberties of the individual. To group up, necessarily requires individual sacrifice for that group, in order for that group to function, be healthy, withstand invaders, prevent corruption, and continue to exist.

There is, of course, a happy medium, where the health of the individual and collective are both weighed and considered, where both prosper. You probably weren't intending it, but your position (at least with how you worded it), would necessarily require the complete sacrifice of the collective for the benefit of the individual (or the corporations), which is odd, considering that companies are also collectives. It's just that you (according to how you're arguing this topic) would rather corporations have unlimited free reign to do whatever they want, and that any infringement upon that freedom by government is somehow evil and wrong.

If you think people in charge of corporations can't be evil, but people in charge of governments can, if you think concentration of power is only deadly when its in the government, but not in corporations, you're extremely naive. I can attest to the evils of corporatism just in my own work life, where companies treat their workers as little more than slaves, and if it weren't illegal for them to do so, they would be more than happy to pay their workers as little as possible, while working them to death. There's an endless list of examples people can give for how companies have fucked them over Why else do you think so many big corporations lobby government to open borders and mass immigrate cheap foreign labor? It's to depress wages so the higher ups can make even more money. Why else would pharmaceutical companies be making trillions off the backs of poisoning their customers? Why else would companies push DEI policies even if it undermines their products? Why else would companies support feminism? Why else would military-industrial complex corporations lobby our governments to pursue more wars, if just to spend more munitions and make more sales of weapons? Why else would farmers mass spray their crops with chemicals that are known to harm human health, if only because it makes their job of farming and harvesting a little easier? Why else has the wealth disparity between CEOs and the average worker gotten so high?

These evils can be largely, if entirely, laid at the feet of corporatism and greed. Government, if its acting properly, is supposed to curb and stop this.

Return to the gold standard would be one of the best things we could do. Regardless, there's no reason to hold back on any other good initiatives.

Well, I agree. We can do more than one thing at once. But, as I've been saying, trying to enact a tariff war with the entire planet, right now, is a bad decision. If we really wanted to solve this issue, we would force these companies to bring their manufacturing back here, close our borders, stop all mass migration, deport all the nons, get women out of the workforce, imprison and execute all bankers, base our currency around a set object or defined labor, and make usury, fractional reserve lending and banking, and all keynesian economics illegal, and put money printing back in the hands of the people. I mean, in the grand scale of it, tariffs aren't even that important. It's a sideways measure to achieve something our government should be doing with companies already.

Many of the problems we're seeing today are from the undue influence bankers have over our nations, governments, and richest people. Through infinite conjuration of fake money, they fund everything that's hurting us. If the problem of banking isn't solved, it doesn't matter what else we do, as it will only be a temporary fix, and we'll still head toward currency devaluation, hyper inflation, and systemic economic and national collapse.

This is all speculative, though, since both the corporations and our governments are corrupt, and absolutely nothing will be done to stop the true causes of our problems.

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– Hellsbells00 0 points 3 months ago +2 / -2

Why do you think there have been mentions of auditing fort knox?

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– ApexVeritas 1 point 3 months ago +1 / -0

Mentioning, not doing. It was a carrot waved in front of people's faces to hype a story, similar to releasing the Epstein files, or draining the swamp, or locking up Hillary.

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