I have been seeing alot of grumbling about Christians and complaining that Christian moral activism is returning.
Name a single part of social justice/woke culture that did not result from what Christians were warning yall about.
I guess some lessons will never be learned though. Society has just gone too far down the path of liberalism 🤷♂️
And yet 'where we are today' did not happen in the 2000 years of Christianity, but only when Christianity fell.
What is your definition of 'when Christianity fell'? All this began during a time when the US was probably the most religious country on Earth.
And we can also talk about how beneficial Christianity was to the people during those 2000 years. Y'know with all the religious wars, the deeply corrupt clergy and all the other nice things that happened. So let's not pretend that Christianity stopped any bad shit from happening.
Eh... not quite. I have serious doubts about US religiosity. It may be religious compared to Europe, but not compared to the world. Furthermore, all this nonsense originated in the least Christian areas.
Just how many religious wars are you thinking of in these 2000 years to talk about 'all the religious wars'?
We're talking about 2000 years and you suggest that what can be said of some clergy in several decades in the 16th century was somehow the universal experience.
Well no, I wasn't arguing that Christianity led to a heaven on earth where nothing bad ever happened. Some of the wiser aspects of Christianity are not even the theological aspects, but the practical ones: a heaven on earth is impossible and attempts to create one lead to tragedy (see the French and Bolshevik revolutions), humans should not play god (see transgenderism), humans are by their nature fallen and imperfect (which is why you don't give absolute power to an individual).
I'm not talking about now. I'm talking about more than half a century ago.
And yet the most Christian areas didn't manage to defend themselves against it. If your religion doesn't protect you from subversion what good is that religion?
The violent and forcible conversion of Europe to Christianity. The division of Europe into two sects of Christianity which kicked of centuries of religious strife. So every religious war and conflict that was fought during that time.
I'm not talking about just a few decades in the 16th century. Corrupt clergy is the rule. Not the exception. Power attracts corrupt individuals and Christianity fails at rooting out those individuals just like any other religion. But organized monotheistic religions with world dominating ambitions are especially bad at it.
You were arguing that Christianity stopped the subversion that we're seeing today. Which it didn't.
There was no wokeness half a century ago though. Of course, the seeds were there, otherwise we wouldn't have gotten here.
That is a fair critique. But not being able to resist some bad thing is not quite as bad as creating and spreading it.
What are you talking about, there is no such thing.
That was for a relatively short time, started perhaps in 1546 and ended in 1648. Hardly the 2000 years of war that you were suggesting.
Again a fair critique. But remember: most clergy had very little power.
It did. There was no such thing when Christianity was dominant. There were some other bad things, which you greatly exaggerated, and obviously some other bad things that you didn't mention. But a central lesson of Christianity, which I think is very valuable for everyone incl. atheists like myself, is that it is impossible to create a heaven on earth and every attempt at such a thing will be a disaster.