I have been seeing alot of grumbling about Christians and complaining that Christian moral activism is returning.
Name a single part of social justice/woke culture that did not result from what Christians were warning yall about.
I guess some lessons will never be learned though. Society has just gone too far down the path of liberalism 🤷♂️
What is your definition of 'when Christianity fell'? All this began during a time when the US was probably the most religious country on Earth.
And we can also talk about how beneficial Christianity was to the people during those 2000 years. Y'know with all the religious wars, the deeply corrupt clergy and all the other nice things that happened. So let's not pretend that Christianity stopped any bad shit from happening.
Eh... not quite. I have serious doubts about US religiosity. It may be religious compared to Europe, but not compared to the world. Furthermore, all this nonsense originated in the least Christian areas.
Just how many religious wars are you thinking of in these 2000 years to talk about 'all the religious wars'?
We're talking about 2000 years and you suggest that what can be said of some clergy in several decades in the 16th century was somehow the universal experience.
Well no, I wasn't arguing that Christianity led to a heaven on earth where nothing bad ever happened. Some of the wiser aspects of Christianity are not even the theological aspects, but the practical ones: a heaven on earth is impossible and attempts to create one lead to tragedy (see the French and Bolshevik revolutions), humans should not play god (see transgenderism), humans are by their nature fallen and imperfect (which is why you don't give absolute power to an individual).
I'm not talking about now. I'm talking about more than half a century ago.
And yet the most Christian areas didn't manage to defend themselves against it. If your religion doesn't protect you from subversion what good is that religion?
The violent and forcible conversion of Europe to Christianity. The division of Europe into two sects of Christianity which kicked of centuries of religious strife. So every religious war and conflict that was fought during that time.
I'm not talking about just a few decades in the 16th century. Corrupt clergy is the rule. Not the exception. Power attracts corrupt individuals and Christianity fails at rooting out those individuals just like any other religion. But organized monotheistic religions with world dominating ambitions are especially bad at it.
You were arguing that Christianity stopped the subversion that we're seeing today. Which it didn't.
There was no wokeness half a century ago though. Of course, the seeds were there, otherwise we wouldn't have gotten here.
That is a fair critique. But not being able to resist some bad thing is not quite as bad as creating and spreading it.
What are you talking about, there is no such thing.
That was for a relatively short time, started perhaps in 1546 and ended in 1648. Hardly the 2000 years of war that you were suggesting.
Again a fair critique. But remember: most clergy had very little power.
It did. There was no such thing when Christianity was dominant. There were some other bad things, which you greatly exaggerated, and obviously some other bad things that you didn't mention. But a central lesson of Christianity, which I think is very valuable for everyone incl. atheists like myself, is that it is impossible to create a heaven on earth and every attempt at such a thing will be a disaster.
Of course there was wokeness. Just not current day wokeness. And yes, the seeds are kinda important because wokeness isn't the disease. It's of one its symptoms.
Christianity didn't exactly create it but it sure helped splendidly in actively spreading it. It just let it happen and then in modern days turned to actively supporting it.
Of course not. Openly holding onto your pagan beliefs was something the Church tolerated by either forcing you to convert or simply killing you. But they were just saving them as otherwise they would've burned in hell for all eternity. Like Charlemagne did.
Islam also didn't spread through violence. That's just a islamophobic conspiracy theory.
The religious strife between Catholics and Protestants had been going strong till the 20th century. It didn't break out into religious wars for the entire time but it seriously divided Europe. Look at Ireland.
Christianity never managed to unite Europe or even just stop European Christian nations from waging war on eachother while the Caliphat was already getting comfy on European soil.
Most federal employees have very little power and yet they're the ones who are upholding the oppressive system. The Church was the most powerful instution in Europe for a very long time until the Europeans were finally getting tired of its corruption and the nobility used that opportunity to tell the Church to go fuck itself.
Luther wouldn't have been possible if the Church hadn't been a corrupt, greedy, hypocritical and powerhungry institution that oppressed Europe.
Like I already said current day wokeness is just one of the many symptoms of the root problem. You yourself admitted that the seeds appeared during Christian dominance. So Christianity prevented fuck all. Letting it happen is just as bad as making it happen.
And if we look at the last century we can see quite clearly that the Churches were actually instrumental in spreading the seeds of current day wokeness. The Churches are actively involved in homoglobo and refugee trafficking.
But I guess they're not "real Christians" just as Stalin, Lenin, Mao etc weren't "real Communists".