So, as someone who was born in one of those countries that Japan invaded and whose family was there during the time of the invasion, Japan deserved the nukes. But I have no issues with people questioning it
So, as someone who was born in one of those countries that Japan invaded and whose family was there during the time of the invasion, Japan deserved the nukes.
Than America also deserves some nukes. And Germany. And Russia. And most major countries, and everyone in the wars. What's your point?
History is written by the victors. Did Japan do terrible shit? Absolutely. And if they'd won, history would rightfully hold the United States and the Allies accountable for their numerous atrocities, while the Axis side gets off scot-free from theirs.
Again, the Japanese did fucking monstrous stuff...so did everyone else. That doesn't absolve Japan, to be clear. Just saying it's all a matter of perspective.
Also, nuking civilians just because their government did bad shit in a war is terrible logic. It would make any city in America a legitimate target for our enemies, for starters.
Isn't it wild how the intentional targetting and murdering of civilians by Allies is swept under the rug, not taught, or perfectly justified in WW2, but when done by the Axis, it's painted as the most heinous thing ever?
The fire bombing of Dresden, which was only to target civilians. Many of our bombing campaigns later in the war, against Japan and Germany, were specifically to target civilians. Many don't even know about the post war atrocities. In Germany alone, we killed tens of millions of civilians, through starvation, rape, forced relocation, and murder, of men, women, children, and elderly. The post war relocation of Germans was one of the largest migrations of people in human history, and almost no one knows about it. Russia mass raped every German woman, from little girls to grandmas, for months (or was it years, I can't remember), many of them to death, in front of their families, often killing anyone who tried to stop it. There's quite a few stories of people unable to sleep in German cities because sll of the glass windows were blown out from all the bombing campaigns, and the screams from all the people being raped every night turned it into a literal hell on earth.
Learning this stuff after my "education" in school, and seeing what movies and shows are offered by Hollywood, paints an extremely clear picture of how insanely skewed "history" is written, and how much people can be manipulated.
In ww2, cities were legitimate targets.In WW3, they will again BE legitimate targets.
Let me know when America starts running multiple comfort women brothels in multiple nations then come and tell me about how you deserve nukes. Or just mass killing people and putting them into graves in multiple fronts.
What is the point of your question? Whether countries deserved to be nuked when they're committing atrocities? Yeah, if you can get away with it. If you could nuke ISIS strongholds without any fallout, wtf wouldn't you.
Or are you trying to retrospectively try and justify nuking America, Germany and Russia? If so, then you're a fucking moron
Say that all you want, doesn't make it not evil. Also, some countries showed restraint and decency...others didn't.
Let me know when America starts running multiple comfort women brothels in multiple nations
Muh comfort women.
...then come and tell me about how you deserve nukes. Or just mass killing people and putting them into graves in multiple fronts.
We do so much worse. Including ruin various countries and prop up their puppet regimes while they do so much worse. Our governments run guns and drugs to the cartels, for instance, who do some of the most gruesome shit it's possible to do to fellow humans, including your examples of forced prostitution and mass graves.
Hell, we fund and arm most of our biggest enemies, for that matter.
What is the point of your question? Whether countries deserved to be nuked when they're committing atrocities? Yeah, if you can get away with it. If you could nuke ISIS strongholds without any fallout, wtf wouldn't you.
I admit I'm not sure I get the point. So you're saying if Japan could have gotten away with nuking America, it would have been justified?
Or are you trying to retrospectively try and justify nuking America, Germany and Russia? If so, then you're a fucking moron
Again, if Japanese cities were "legitimate targets," so were cities in those countries. So I don't have to make an argument justifying the nuking of America, Germany and Russia...you already did. Not only did they all committed atrocities, but cities are legitimate targets to begin with, so I suppose if someone could have gotten away with it they all deserved nuking. Again, that's your argument, not me.
No, my argument is that Japan deserved nuking. Not that hypothetically America deserves nuking because I don't do hypotheticals. If Japan had the nukes at the time and America was behaving like Japan did at the time while Japan wasn't, then sure, maybe America should have gotten nuked
But I don't want to make dumb hypothetical arguments like that because a) japan didn't have the nukes and America wasn't behaving like japan. All I can tell you is that based on the situation in WW2, Japan deserved nuking and it turned out well
A lot of people are trying to translate that event into modern day politics which is retarded because the times were different, the scales of the atrocities being committed were diifferent. They think the argument that Japan should have been nuked back then is somehow an argument to nuke people now, like you and your idea that this is justifying the nuking of America/Germany/Russia. No, you fucking moron because we're not in the late stages of a WW3 where such actions may have to be taken
And many thousands weren't. They were killed by the japanese without a nuke. Nuking them to force an unconditional surrender and hopefully break their spirit was the best option
Basically copy-pasting another reply: there is a false dichotomy and unfounded assumptions in that traditional defense for dropping the nukes on the cites. How do we know the Japanese wouldn't have surrendered if the bombs were dropped on two other targets? What if one was mostly just a show of force that could be seen in the distance from Tokyo? It isn't simply "we blow up two large cities with manufacturering or we end up in an extended ground war."
Although the firebombing of Tokyo is usually used to justify the nukes, I'd argue that the firebombings help my position that large cities with civillian populations didn't need to be the target for the Japanese to surrender. As is oft repeated, the damage and deaths of the firebombings was greater than the nukes, yet the firebombing clearly didn't cause them to surrender. Thus, it logically was less the actual destruction of the nukes and more of the psychological terror of a mountain of fire capable of such destruction that lead to the surrender.
I get it, I used to think those cities had to be leveled -- it's what "the experts" have said since it happened -- but as I've thought about it over the years, I don't buy it wholesale. Like all good deceit, there is certainly some truth to the traditional defense of bombing those cities, but it isn't the whole truth.
And how do you know the japanese would have surrendered unconditionally? There was a last minute coup attempt by people who didn't want to surrender and just wanted to keep going on.
I don't think it had to be those 2 cities had to be levelled. Could have been any other 2 cities in japan so on that point we agree.
And yes, it kinda goes back to my point about breaking their spirit
So, as someone who was born in one of those countries that Japan invaded and whose family was there during the time of the invasion, Japan deserved the nukes. But I have no issues with people questioning it
Than America also deserves some nukes. And Germany. And Russia. And most major countries, and everyone in the wars. What's your point?
History is written by the victors. Did Japan do terrible shit? Absolutely. And if they'd won, history would rightfully hold the United States and the Allies accountable for their numerous atrocities, while the Axis side gets off scot-free from theirs.
Again, the Japanese did fucking monstrous stuff...so did everyone else. That doesn't absolve Japan, to be clear. Just saying it's all a matter of perspective.
Also, nuking civilians just because their government did bad shit in a war is terrible logic. It would make any city in America a legitimate target for our enemies, for starters.
Isn't it wild how the intentional targetting and murdering of civilians by Allies is swept under the rug, not taught, or perfectly justified in WW2, but when done by the Axis, it's painted as the most heinous thing ever?
The fire bombing of Dresden, which was only to target civilians. Many of our bombing campaigns later in the war, against Japan and Germany, were specifically to target civilians. Many don't even know about the post war atrocities. In Germany alone, we killed tens of millions of civilians, through starvation, rape, forced relocation, and murder, of men, women, children, and elderly. The post war relocation of Germans was one of the largest migrations of people in human history, and almost no one knows about it. Russia mass raped every German woman, from little girls to grandmas, for months (or was it years, I can't remember), many of them to death, in front of their families, often killing anyone who tried to stop it. There's quite a few stories of people unable to sleep in German cities because sll of the glass windows were blown out from all the bombing campaigns, and the screams from all the people being raped every night turned it into a literal hell on earth.
Learning this stuff after my "education" in school, and seeing what movies and shows are offered by Hollywood, paints an extremely clear picture of how insanely skewed "history" is written, and how much people can be manipulated.
In ww2, cities were legitimate targets.In WW3, they will again BE legitimate targets.
Let me know when America starts running multiple comfort women brothels in multiple nations then come and tell me about how you deserve nukes. Or just mass killing people and putting them into graves in multiple fronts.
What is the point of your question? Whether countries deserved to be nuked when they're committing atrocities? Yeah, if you can get away with it. If you could nuke ISIS strongholds without any fallout, wtf wouldn't you.
Or are you trying to retrospectively try and justify nuking America, Germany and Russia? If so, then you're a fucking moron
Say that all you want, doesn't make it not evil. Also, some countries showed restraint and decency...others didn't.
Muh comfort women.
We do so much worse. Including ruin various countries and prop up their puppet regimes while they do so much worse. Our governments run guns and drugs to the cartels, for instance, who do some of the most gruesome shit it's possible to do to fellow humans, including your examples of forced prostitution and mass graves.
Hell, we fund and arm most of our biggest enemies, for that matter.
I admit I'm not sure I get the point. So you're saying if Japan could have gotten away with nuking America, it would have been justified?
Again, if Japanese cities were "legitimate targets," so were cities in those countries. So I don't have to make an argument justifying the nuking of America, Germany and Russia...you already did. Not only did they all committed atrocities, but cities are legitimate targets to begin with, so I suppose if someone could have gotten away with it they all deserved nuking. Again, that's your argument, not me.
No, my argument is that Japan deserved nuking. Not that hypothetically America deserves nuking because I don't do hypotheticals. If Japan had the nukes at the time and America was behaving like Japan did at the time while Japan wasn't, then sure, maybe America should have gotten nuked
But I don't want to make dumb hypothetical arguments like that because a) japan didn't have the nukes and America wasn't behaving like japan. All I can tell you is that based on the situation in WW2, Japan deserved nuking and it turned out well
A lot of people are trying to translate that event into modern day politics which is retarded because the times were different, the scales of the atrocities being committed were diifferent. They think the argument that Japan should have been nuked back then is somehow an argument to nuke people now, like you and your idea that this is justifying the nuking of America/Germany/Russia. No, you fucking moron because we're not in the late stages of a WW3 where such actions may have to be taken
America just gives viagra to child raping sand niggers, bomb civilians and other “fun” stuff
Many thousands of Korean and Chinese slave workers were killed by the nukes.
And many thousands weren't. They were killed by the japanese without a nuke. Nuking them to force an unconditional surrender and hopefully break their spirit was the best option
Basically copy-pasting another reply: there is a false dichotomy and unfounded assumptions in that traditional defense for dropping the nukes on the cites. How do we know the Japanese wouldn't have surrendered if the bombs were dropped on two other targets? What if one was mostly just a show of force that could be seen in the distance from Tokyo? It isn't simply "we blow up two large cities with manufacturering or we end up in an extended ground war."
Although the firebombing of Tokyo is usually used to justify the nukes, I'd argue that the firebombings help my position that large cities with civillian populations didn't need to be the target for the Japanese to surrender. As is oft repeated, the damage and deaths of the firebombings was greater than the nukes, yet the firebombing clearly didn't cause them to surrender. Thus, it logically was less the actual destruction of the nukes and more of the psychological terror of a mountain of fire capable of such destruction that lead to the surrender.
I get it, I used to think those cities had to be leveled -- it's what "the experts" have said since it happened -- but as I've thought about it over the years, I don't buy it wholesale. Like all good deceit, there is certainly some truth to the traditional defense of bombing those cities, but it isn't the whole truth.
And how do you know the japanese would have surrendered unconditionally? There was a last minute coup attempt by people who didn't want to surrender and just wanted to keep going on.
I don't think it had to be those 2 cities had to be levelled. Could have been any other 2 cities in japan so on that point we agree.
And yes, it kinda goes back to my point about breaking their spirit