The reality is there are checks on the protein as well. If not, it can kill organs or needed cells. The body is way more complex than a single protein.
I'm European, but I grew up in the states. My posts from Seattle friends should have been the clue. Trying to designate me is a hard thing.
See that's the problem with analogy, if you go deeper and discuss the realities within it, they tend to fail. I had a Dutch guy explain to me how stupid I was for finding a third solution to the train analogy. If it can be switched on the tracks, it is going slow enough to stop before anybody dies. Any deeper knowledge on the actual subject derails the whole thing.
Yes, it is an interesting idea. I mean no offense to Graphium.
If you want amazing metaphors the Arabs have a few. My favorite is looking for watermelon seeds in shit. Beautiful imagery and describes the feeling perfectly.
Cheers, no problem. I like to share it because it made me think, so I hope it has similar effects on everyone else. I just find it to be very....evocative writing
Didn’t think the community needed a key but anyway here’s my thoughts atleast:
In this analogy, the idea of morality in human society is being depicted in the activity of the cells in a single human body.
Cells = Individuals
The Body = Society
Cancer = Criminals (anyone who takes advantage of the “rules of the game” aka society)
p53 = Law / Enforcement of Rules
Genetic morality, in this example, is seen in the individual cell’s resistance to “going cancerous”. Through a variety of genetic mechanisms (such as telomere caps) cells “resist the urge” to become cancerous, “taking advantage of the body’s utopian surplus”, i.e. taking advantage of Western society’s “utopian surplus”. Those genetic “morality” (assuming you see cancer as immoral...) mechanisms do degrade, in some cells faster than others even. And the surpluses of society do get taken advantage of. We see that in more ways than we can count.
Here is where I think things get interesting, and the entire point why I posted it, for people to discuss this part:
You now confront the basic problem of morality. It is the alignment of individual incentives with the global needs of the structure.
Patterns will participate in a structure only if participation benefits their ability to go on existing.
The more successful the structure grows, the more temptation accrues to cheat.And the greater the advantage the cheaters gain over their honest neighbors.
And the greater the ability they develop to capture the very laws that should prevent their selfishness.
To prevent this, the structure must punish cheaters with a violence that grows in proportion to its own success.
Do we live in that world? Are the incentives of our society pointed in a direction which will strengthen and preserve it, or are the incentives generally fueling a race to the bottom? What are the dominant “Patterns” in our world today - are they Individuals (Musk, Trump, whoever) or Groups (BLM, ADL, ZOG, etc)? Have these dominant Patterns captured the rules themselves? Have the rules been captured beyond repair? Can the “structure” survive the “disease”?
Your first objection is silly, every metaphor, by definition, is reductive, you’re reducing an entire thing to a mere comparison.
Second of all, despite your very smart response, you seem to have misread the text. I’ll quote the relavent part:
So saying that the degradation of p53 would benefit the individual cell doesn't make sense.
Cells cannot resist the temptation to steal from that surplus. Their genetic morality degrades as tumor suppressor genes fail. The only way to stop them is by punishment.
The p53 are not “tumor suppressor genes” which fail in old age (like telomere caps), they are the “punishment” of the next sentence.
then it's the structure itself that is inherently flawed and becomes more and more corrupting as time goes on.
I disagree that what you’ve written is implicate, regardless, that is still a valid argument people can, and have, made about societies, don’t you think?
The reality is there are checks on the protein as well. If not, it can kill organs or needed cells. The body is way more complex than a single protein.
Exactly. Master cells, species, etc need watchdogs on them, too.
Who controls the controller?
Do they have analogies/metaphors in europe? Judging by the responses it doesn’t seem like it.
I'm European, but I grew up in the states. My posts from Seattle friends should have been the clue. Trying to designate me is a hard thing.
See that's the problem with analogy, if you go deeper and discuss the realities within it, they tend to fail. I had a Dutch guy explain to me how stupid I was for finding a third solution to the train analogy. If it can be switched on the tracks, it is going slow enough to stop before anybody dies. Any deeper knowledge on the actual subject derails the whole thing.
Lmao that was my exact same answer the first time someone gave me the trolley problem.
I did enjoy Graphenium's analogy, though I'm more curious what the source of the text is and why it looks like someone is talking to a chatbot.
Yes, it is an interesting idea. I mean no offense to Graphium.
If you want amazing metaphors the Arabs have a few. My favorite is looking for watermelon seeds in shit. Beautiful imagery and describes the feeling perfectly.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/p53
I recommend the whole “book”
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-unveiling
A multitude of interesting philosophical ideas are raised and integrated with eachother
Thanks!
Cheers, no problem. I like to share it because it made me think, so I hope it has similar effects on everyone else. I just find it to be very....evocative writing
Not you specifically, it seems like literally your entire continent can’t wrap their head around the purpose of a metaphor
>literally misses the point of a trolly-ology question to “correct” someone’s “metaphor”
Ok dude, it does sound like europeans just can’t comprehend the purpose of a metaphor, thanks for confirming lol
So you just avoid metaphor entirely I assume? Since every metaphor is fundamentally flawed?
Don't talk about cancer from a morality standpoint while the welfare state exists.
Welfare is the opposite of p53 is this analogy.
Didn’t think the community needed a key but anyway here’s my thoughts atleast:
In this analogy, the idea of morality in human society is being depicted in the activity of the cells in a single human body.
Cells = Individuals
The Body = Society
Cancer = Criminals (anyone who takes advantage of the “rules of the game” aka society)
p53 = Law / Enforcement of Rules
Genetic morality, in this example, is seen in the individual cell’s resistance to “going cancerous”. Through a variety of genetic mechanisms (such as telomere caps) cells “resist the urge” to become cancerous, “taking advantage of the body’s utopian surplus”, i.e. taking advantage of Western society’s “utopian surplus”. Those genetic “morality” (assuming you see cancer as immoral...) mechanisms do degrade, in some cells faster than others even. And the surpluses of society do get taken advantage of. We see that in more ways than we can count.
Here is where I think things get interesting, and the entire point why I posted it, for people to discuss this part:
Do we live in that world? Are the incentives of our society pointed in a direction which will strengthen and preserve it, or are the incentives generally fueling a race to the bottom? What are the dominant “Patterns” in our world today - are they Individuals (Musk, Trump, whoever) or Groups (BLM, ADL, ZOG, etc)? Have these dominant Patterns captured the rules themselves? Have the rules been captured beyond repair? Can the “structure” survive the “disease”?
>Hol up...u be....u be sayin this be a metafour n shiet?
How would you feel if you hadn’t eaten breakfast this morning?
Your first objection is silly, every metaphor, by definition, is reductive, you’re reducing an entire thing to a mere comparison.
Second of all, despite your very smart response, you seem to have misread the text. I’ll quote the relavent part:
The p53 are not “tumor suppressor genes” which fail in old age (like telomere caps), they are the “punishment” of the next sentence.
I disagree that what you’ve written is implicate, regardless, that is still a valid argument people can, and have, made about societies, don’t you think?
Much ado about nothing imo