The only time loyalty exists as a quality that can be quantified and brought up, is during times of struggle where you are being asked to turn against them. The vast majority of these times are when a crime or sin is committed. You didn't need to put context, because the very word being used adds context itself, and you don't want those problems brought up because it immediately makes the reason for loyalty obvious.
in moral matters it’s insufficient and can even be problematic.
It doesn't need to be anything more than it is. You hate loyalty because you've been on the losing end, as your own example demonstates. The entire point of it is to keep external forces on the losing end to protect someone who has done right by you enough to have earned your loyalty.
Sure in a perfect world where everything is exactly perfectly utopian its unnecessary, but this isn't that world and never will be. The same reason why for all the "flaws" and "unnecessary" elements you can in things like capitalism, monogamy, and religion they still exist and are superior to the alternative.
You hate loyalty because you've been on the losing end,
Not true. You don't know me. Also, I didn't say I hate loyalty.
The entire point of it is to keep external forces on the losing end to protect someone who has done right by you enough to have earned your loyalty.
So it's a tribal substitute for informed judgement. That fits more or less with what I said.
A good person doesn't need loyalty to do this because they believe everyone who hasn't done anything to explicitly lose their trust has the right to the benefit of the doubt.
Sure in a perfect world where everything is exactly perfectly utopian its unnecessary, but this isn't that world and never will be.
I disagree. In my experience it's in the imperfect world where grace shines the brightest. I know many people's whose lives are a testimony to that end. You may think me naive but I encourage everyone to resist the pull of tribalism and seek higher values.
Nope, but when you complain about a specific problem being the reason you don't understand something considered a good thing by most people, it comes across to everyone as exactly that.
That fits more or less with what I said.
Sure, we can add more and more words to make you sound smarter by adding more and more complexity to one of the most basic human concepts and instincts.
You may think me naive but I encourage everyone to resist the pull of tribalism and seek higher values.
While you are encouraging everyone to live in a purity spiral of aiming for perfection and creating a perfect world, you are being cut down and rendered powerless by people who are under no such restriction and are under no care for your morals or preserving them.
And they love you trying to uphold all those values, while downplaying loyalty and other "imperfect" traits of morality. Makes it incredibly easy to isolate people out and remove them entirely, while also making you hilariously easy to manipulate to their whims and needs until you yourself are isolated out and lobotomized.
Sure, we can add more and more words to make you sound smarter by adding more and more complexity to one of the most basic human concepts and instincts.
This is an appeal to nature; something being natural doesn’t make it good or moral.
While you are encouraging everyone to live in a purity spiral of aiming for perfection and creating a perfect world, you are being cut down and rendered powerless by people who are under no such restriction and are under no care for your morals or preserving them.
And they love you trying to uphold all those values, while downplaying loyalty and other "imperfect" traits of morality. Makes it incredibly easy to isolate people out and remove them entirely, while also making you hilariously easy to manipulate to their whims and needs until you yourself are isolated out and lobotomized.
Me and people like me predicted all of this — what is happening in the West — at least 30 years ago, and have been warning everyone about it to the best of our ability this entire time. We’ve remained unflinching in our conviction and unwavering in the face of the cultural conquest. Sure, some people have fallen away, seduced by Leftist culture or other ideologies, but the core remains strong, primarily because our values are based on something eternal and universal and not tribalistic or worldly.
You make some predictions but nothing you’ve said has been born out so far, and I don’t expect that to change. I expect we’ll be the last ones standing at the end to pick up the pieces just like we always are.
something being natural doesn’t make it good or moral.
I made no prescriptive judgement of it being good or moral. I said it was basic. As in, it didn't need you to redefine it multiple times to describe what it was. It was a natural concept that humans naturally understood without needing to learn, and trying to fancy it up only makes you seem like you have an agenda.
Sure, some people have fallen away, seduced by Leftist culture or other ideologies, but the core remains strong, primarily because our values are based on something eternal and universal and not tribalistic or worldly.
That's a really huffing your own farts way of saying "some of you may die, but its a sacrifice I'm willing to make." I guess when you consider yourself so smart and full of aged wisdom, the suffering and misery of others means nothing to you. As long as you get to look back and say "I never compromised!" the infinite graves are all justified.
I've also been in this "culture war" for decades, you aren't special in that regard.
The only time loyalty exists as a quality that can be quantified and brought up, is during times of struggle where you are being asked to turn against them. The vast majority of these times are when a crime or sin is committed. You didn't need to put context, because the very word being used adds context itself, and you don't want those problems brought up because it immediately makes the reason for loyalty obvious.
It doesn't need to be anything more than it is. You hate loyalty because you've been on the losing end, as your own example demonstates. The entire point of it is to keep external forces on the losing end to protect someone who has done right by you enough to have earned your loyalty.
Sure in a perfect world where everything is exactly perfectly utopian its unnecessary, but this isn't that world and never will be. The same reason why for all the "flaws" and "unnecessary" elements you can in things like capitalism, monogamy, and religion they still exist and are superior to the alternative.
Not true. You don't know me. Also, I didn't say I hate loyalty.
So it's a tribal substitute for informed judgement. That fits more or less with what I said.
A good person doesn't need loyalty to do this because they believe everyone who hasn't done anything to explicitly lose their trust has the right to the benefit of the doubt.
I disagree. In my experience it's in the imperfect world where grace shines the brightest. I know many people's whose lives are a testimony to that end. You may think me naive but I encourage everyone to resist the pull of tribalism and seek higher values.
Nope, but when you complain about a specific problem being the reason you don't understand something considered a good thing by most people, it comes across to everyone as exactly that.
Sure, we can add more and more words to make you sound smarter by adding more and more complexity to one of the most basic human concepts and instincts.
While you are encouraging everyone to live in a purity spiral of aiming for perfection and creating a perfect world, you are being cut down and rendered powerless by people who are under no such restriction and are under no care for your morals or preserving them.
And they love you trying to uphold all those values, while downplaying loyalty and other "imperfect" traits of morality. Makes it incredibly easy to isolate people out and remove them entirely, while also making you hilariously easy to manipulate to their whims and needs until you yourself are isolated out and lobotomized.
This is an appeal to nature; something being natural doesn’t make it good or moral.
Me and people like me predicted all of this — what is happening in the West — at least 30 years ago, and have been warning everyone about it to the best of our ability this entire time. We’ve remained unflinching in our conviction and unwavering in the face of the cultural conquest. Sure, some people have fallen away, seduced by Leftist culture or other ideologies, but the core remains strong, primarily because our values are based on something eternal and universal and not tribalistic or worldly.
You make some predictions but nothing you’ve said has been born out so far, and I don’t expect that to change. I expect we’ll be the last ones standing at the end to pick up the pieces just like we always are.
I made no prescriptive judgement of it being good or moral. I said it was basic. As in, it didn't need you to redefine it multiple times to describe what it was. It was a natural concept that humans naturally understood without needing to learn, and trying to fancy it up only makes you seem like you have an agenda.
That's a really huffing your own farts way of saying "some of you may die, but its a sacrifice I'm willing to make." I guess when you consider yourself so smart and full of aged wisdom, the suffering and misery of others means nothing to you. As long as you get to look back and say "I never compromised!" the infinite graves are all justified.
I've also been in this "culture war" for decades, you aren't special in that regard.