I knew Lincoln's anti-slavery pretenses were bullshit and that the war was ostensibly about taxing the south, but god damn, I was still not prepared for some of this shit.
I've said this forever: States Rights and Slavery are the same issue. It's States Rights about Slavery. Slavery was the cultural touchstone of the time, the Industrial Revolution's economic consequences around slavery fed into the problem. It was an issue during the founding of the constitution, and it only got worse as industrialization made slavery as an economic activity preposterously stupid. It's all kind of jumbled up into one massive morass. It's like saying: "Our modern cultural divisions are about the Left's over-financialization of the global economy. That has nothing to do with Cultural Marxism!" That's just wrong. It's not one or the other. Fabian Socialists are using the financialization of the economy as a mechanism to control it in order to enact Socialism. It's the same issue. On a similar point, yes: it's about taxes, tariffs, industrialization, federal centralization, Hamiltonian v. Jeffersonian philosophy, which inform States Rights... which falls into the power of Slaveocratic rule by the plantation south, the mass immigration they initiated, the protectionism they gave themselves, and the broader abolitionist movement that would have destroyed their economic order. It's the same issue..
And as we know, if you are using your rights for a bad thing then your rights should be stripped away by any means necessary. War, suffering, precedence that will cause problems for centuries are all justified if you did a naughty with the rights allowed to you. Alternative measures and long term planning be damned, just stomp right in and force them to play by your rules for how you think rights should be used.
After all, why would anyone use the First Amendment to say nigger or other hate speech? Those rights shouldn't be allowed to be used that way either!
Shocking, but not really. But then, when you come into a conversation so assured of how right you are you just copypasta yourself, its to be expected to be closed minded.
Who said Lincoln cared about the slaves beyond hoping for slave revolts? The Baptist Church didn't split over tariffs. It split over Slavery. There was a moral argument about slavery that had been ongoing since the very beginning of the country and earlier.
Secession was partly about slavery. The war was not.
Although the South stupidly shot first after being incited into it, the war was pressed by the North for Lincoln's reasons. Since secession is the right of a free people, the war and it's causes can only be laid at the feet of the federal government. The confederacy's motivations aren't needed.
I think you missed my point but I don't know how better to explain it than the middle sentence I already wrote. Sure if you are analyzing things from a war historian's perspective then it's important to know the full context and what motivated both sides leading up to it for 100 years. If one is simply asking "was the civil war fought over slavery?" then conflating that with secession muddies the waters and causes us to talk past each other. As Lincoln's war, it's only necessary to look at his political concerns and writings to answer the question.
Glad I watched this one, holy shit.
I knew Lincoln's anti-slavery pretenses were bullshit and that the war was ostensibly about taxing the south, but god damn, I was still not prepared for some of this shit.
Eh. I'll copypasta what I already wrote:
I've said this forever: States Rights and Slavery are the same issue. It's States Rights about Slavery. Slavery was the cultural touchstone of the time, the Industrial Revolution's economic consequences around slavery fed into the problem. It was an issue during the founding of the constitution, and it only got worse as industrialization made slavery as an economic activity preposterously stupid. It's all kind of jumbled up into one massive morass. It's like saying: "Our modern cultural divisions are about the Left's over-financialization of the global economy. That has nothing to do with Cultural Marxism!" That's just wrong. It's not one or the other. Fabian Socialists are using the financialization of the economy as a mechanism to control it in order to enact Socialism. It's the same issue. On a similar point, yes: it's about taxes, tariffs, industrialization, federal centralization, Hamiltonian v. Jeffersonian philosophy, which inform States Rights... which falls into the power of Slaveocratic rule by the plantation south, the mass immigration they initiated, the protectionism they gave themselves, and the broader abolitionist movement that would have destroyed their economic order. It's the same issue..
And as we know, if you are using your rights for a bad thing then your rights should be stripped away by any means necessary. War, suffering, precedence that will cause problems for centuries are all justified if you did a naughty with the rights allowed to you. Alternative measures and long term planning be damned, just stomp right in and force them to play by your rules for how you think rights should be used.
After all, why would anyone use the First Amendment to say nigger or other hate speech? Those rights shouldn't be allowed to be used that way either!
I don't know what this has to do with my comment.
Shocking, but not really. But then, when you come into a conversation so assured of how right you are you just copypasta yourself, its to be expected to be closed minded.
If that's the case, why is there no evidence that lincoln gave a single solitary fuck about slaves?
Why did Europe succeed in buying out all its slave owners while in the US, massive war had to be fought?
Why is the taxation not mentioned?
Who said Lincoln cared about the slaves beyond hoping for slave revolts? The Baptist Church didn't split over tariffs. It split over Slavery. There was a moral argument about slavery that had been ongoing since the very beginning of the country and earlier.
Secession was partly about slavery. The war was not.
Although the South stupidly shot first after being incited into it, the war was pressed by the North for Lincoln's reasons. Since secession is the right of a free people, the war and it's causes can only be laid at the feet of the federal government. The confederacy's motivations aren't needed.
Didn't John Brown slaughter a while confederate town before the war started
There is no difference. The war was about secession, about state's rights, and about slavery.
wut?
All belligerent's motivations are needed in all conflicts.
I think you missed my point but I don't know how better to explain it than the middle sentence I already wrote. Sure if you are analyzing things from a war historian's perspective then it's important to know the full context and what motivated both sides leading up to it for 100 years. If one is simply asking "was the civil war fought over slavery?" then conflating that with secession muddies the waters and causes us to talk past each other. As Lincoln's war, it's only necessary to look at his political concerns and writings to answer the question.