The law requires you to actually be confronted with an imminent deadly threat before using lethal force. Just because the attacker is a race you don't like, doesn't mean that this isn't going to come across as potentially murder in every single US state.
IF Simon was threatening to kill him, then there's a case. If not, it really is murder.
He got assaulted by an aggressive shithead, and did a public service by removing an aggressive shithead from existence.
This right here, that's considered murder. Someone just being aggressive and bullying you isn't enough to kill them over. Ordinary force can't be met with lethal force, without some additional circumstances or evidence that indicates lethal intent.
If some random dude punches you in the face in the street, and you pull a gun, and he yells, 'shoot me bitch', and you shoot him, you still get charged with murder. You'll also be justly convicted.
AFAIK, the law in most jurisdictions requires you to have a reasonable belief that your life is in danger to justify the use of deadly force in self defense. The assailant doesn't need to inform you that he intends to kill you.
Given NYC's skyrocketing violent crime due to the communist DA's practice of repeatedly releasing violent criminals without charge, in the name of "restorative justice," until they go on to commit capital offenses, I think it is reasonable in that climate to think that your life may be in danger when some piece of shit, who fears no punishment, comes behind the counter to assault you over a bag of chips.
Waiting to defend yourself until a goon with no impulse control beats you into semi-consciousness seems like a recipe for getting dead.
Of course, defending yourself under those circumstances means you'll have to deal with that same DA, who will prosecute you mercilessly to enforce the state of anarcho-tyranny. But it's still better than having your head stomped in by a troglodyte.
That's my semi-informed legal take.
My moral take is, there is no place in a moderately civilized society for the type of person who will assault a convenience store clerk over a bag of chips, and someone like that should absolutely be in fear of their life if they are thinking about doing violence to someone for such a petty reason.
If some random dude punches you in the face in the street, and you pull a gun, and he yells, 'shoot me bitch', and you shoot him, you still get charged with murder.
Something like that happened last year in Phoenix, AZ. A crazy guy attacked a legally armed man outside his home, told him to drop the gun and fight like a man, kept moving in on him, and got fatally shot. The shooter was (correctly IMO) not charged.
Waiting to defend yourself until a goon with no impulse control beats you into semi-consciousness seems like a recipe for getting dead.
Yeah, honestly, he should have maced both of them, and pulled the knife sooner and used it in a defensive display. He could have actually gotten them to back off.
Had he used ordinary force to counter ordinary force he would have been fine.
Something like that happened last year in Phoenix, AZ
I know which one you're talking about, and there's a major difference.
That guy kept pursuing after the defensive display of a firearm. That's the reasonable belief that someone's going to kill you. You showed that you had a weapon, that you are prepared to use lethal force, and they won't stop attacking.
I'm saying, if you pull the gun, and he stops and says shoot me, and you shoot him, that's still gonna be murder.
And in a similar way, the only thing that can save Alba right now is that Simon grabbed him to keep him from leaving. If he hadn't done that, this would be an open-and-shut case.
Yeah, honestly, he should have maced both of them, and pulled the knife sooner and used it in a defensive display. He could have actually gotten them to back off.
In a reasonable world, with reasonable people, this would make sense. But rational people don't physically assault someone because of the price of a bag of chips. There is no reason to assume the assaulter would come to his senses.
Also, given the confined space, the clerk would have just as likely been macing himself, leaving himself disadvantaged, with an already unreasonably violent attacker, now even angrier.
Had he used ordinary force to counter ordinary force he would have been fine.
Maybe from the legal perspective in a fundamentally broken jurisdiction, but in reality, when it comes down to violent conflict, you do not want to meet force with equal force. You want overwhelming force to stop an attacker and end the conflict. Anything less risks prolonging the fight and injuring innocent parties.
We are supposed to be living in a free country here in the US. To me this means all law-abiding citizens should have the freedom to go about their daily business without being assaulted by some utter shit-skull who wants to hurt people just because he can get away with it.
Even when the State is prosecuting properly It would be no comfort to wake in a hospital bed with your jaw wired shut and a traumatic brain injury to be "legally in the right."
When the State is compromised, as it is now in many states, it would be flat out humiliating to find your attacker was given a year of probation for kicking you in the head because he just kinda felt like it. It sends the message to criminals that they won't face consequences. It sends the message to the law-abiding citizens that their suffering is worth less than the freedom of a violent psychopath.
This is the line in a civilized society, and individual citizens have the moral right to hold that line. There is no valid reason to physically assault someone who hasn't done anything to you. There is no valid reason to let someone attack you and hope the cops come to rescue you before you suffer grievous injuries.
A thug who is considering violently attacking someone should absolutely have the fear that they will suffer immediate consequences for their actions.
FWIW, I upvoted your post. I never downvote for disagreement if it is thoughtful and interesting.
Old man shoved into a corner in his store by attack dawg (literally only there to attack). Was not going to be let out (actually grabbed as he looks to have gotten the knife), another customer couldn't convince dawg to leave it be.
I get it. A gun or knife needs to be presented in the letter of the law. But what, realistically, could he do to stop further violence/harassment against him, even if it could be understood that he wasn't in danger for his life?
But what, realistically, could he do to stop further violence/harassment against him, even if it could be understood that he wasn't in danger for his life
Honestly, he should have had mace. Frankly, he should have used it as soon as both of them came back in the store. He would have been fine had he seen them walk in with an attitude and just maced them.
The problem is that he got himself stuck:
He didn't have a less lethal option on him
He didn't have a defensive structure to keep someone from crossing the counter
He didn't have a lethal weapon on him to display as a threat.
But because he didn't have anything really prepared except for a knife, the only real option, especially with state law, that he had was to do nothing.
The lesson here is to not put yourself in such a situation, especially when mace is pretty cheap and available.
He was battered in his own store by some jackass he'd never seen before, in a city that spent the last 2 years releasing CONVICTED violent offenders because covid, and was smaller and older than his assailant. Get your head checked.
Being smaller and older doesn't justify lethal force on the face of it. You need something to articulate. Check your own head so you stop seeing what you want to see, and look at what's in front of you.
If some random dude punches you in the face in the street, and you pull a gun, and he yells, 'shoot me bitch', and you shoot him, you still get charged with murder. You'll also be justly convicted.
Kyle Rittenhouse didn't pull a gun. Rosenbaum literally charged at him like a screaming psychopath, pursued him as Kyle fled, continued charging when Kyle pointed the gun at him, still pursued him, and tried to take his gun.
Kyle Rittenhouse didn't do anything wrong. This guy absolutely did.
Of course, we will hear about how this old guy should have waited to find out how far the dindu felt like escalating the attack.
'You don't stab a guy to death because he got in your face and shoved you!', they'll cry.
Fuck off. Unless you're a fucking psychic, you don't know what's coming next. The next thing could be the punch that cracks your skull and kills you.
He got assaulted by an aggressive shithead, and did a public service by removing an aggressive shithead from existence.
Also, that nigger was 37 years old. This is the kind of shit behavior I expect from 16-24 year old thugs. This guy still has it in his system at 37?
I'm gonna guess he has a lengthy criminal record already.
The law requires you to actually be confronted with an imminent deadly threat before using lethal force. Just because the attacker is a race you don't like, doesn't mean that this isn't going to come across as potentially murder in every single US state.
IF Simon was threatening to kill him, then there's a case. If not, it really is murder.
This right here, that's considered murder. Someone just being aggressive and bullying you isn't enough to kill them over. Ordinary force can't be met with lethal force, without some additional circumstances or evidence that indicates lethal intent.
If some random dude punches you in the face in the street, and you pull a gun, and he yells, 'shoot me bitch', and you shoot him, you still get charged with murder. You'll also be justly convicted.
AFAIK, the law in most jurisdictions requires you to have a reasonable belief that your life is in danger to justify the use of deadly force in self defense. The assailant doesn't need to inform you that he intends to kill you.
Given NYC's skyrocketing violent crime due to the communist DA's practice of repeatedly releasing violent criminals without charge, in the name of "restorative justice," until they go on to commit capital offenses, I think it is reasonable in that climate to think that your life may be in danger when some piece of shit, who fears no punishment, comes behind the counter to assault you over a bag of chips.
Waiting to defend yourself until a goon with no impulse control beats you into semi-consciousness seems like a recipe for getting dead.
Of course, defending yourself under those circumstances means you'll have to deal with that same DA, who will prosecute you mercilessly to enforce the state of anarcho-tyranny. But it's still better than having your head stomped in by a troglodyte.
That's my semi-informed legal take.
My moral take is, there is no place in a moderately civilized society for the type of person who will assault a convenience store clerk over a bag of chips, and someone like that should absolutely be in fear of their life if they are thinking about doing violence to someone for such a petty reason.
Something like that happened last year in Phoenix, AZ. A crazy guy attacked a legally armed man outside his home, told him to drop the gun and fight like a man, kept moving in on him, and got fatally shot. The shooter was (correctly IMO) not charged.
Yeah, honestly, he should have maced both of them, and pulled the knife sooner and used it in a defensive display. He could have actually gotten them to back off.
Had he used ordinary force to counter ordinary force he would have been fine.
I know which one you're talking about, and there's a major difference.
That guy kept pursuing after the defensive display of a firearm. That's the reasonable belief that someone's going to kill you. You showed that you had a weapon, that you are prepared to use lethal force, and they won't stop attacking.
I'm saying, if you pull the gun, and he stops and says shoot me, and you shoot him, that's still gonna be murder.
And in a similar way, the only thing that can save Alba right now is that Simon grabbed him to keep him from leaving. If he hadn't done that, this would be an open-and-shut case.
In a reasonable world, with reasonable people, this would make sense. But rational people don't physically assault someone because of the price of a bag of chips. There is no reason to assume the assaulter would come to his senses.
Also, given the confined space, the clerk would have just as likely been macing himself, leaving himself disadvantaged, with an already unreasonably violent attacker, now even angrier.
Maybe from the legal perspective in a fundamentally broken jurisdiction, but in reality, when it comes down to violent conflict, you do not want to meet force with equal force. You want overwhelming force to stop an attacker and end the conflict. Anything less risks prolonging the fight and injuring innocent parties.
We are supposed to be living in a free country here in the US. To me this means all law-abiding citizens should have the freedom to go about their daily business without being assaulted by some utter shit-skull who wants to hurt people just because he can get away with it.
Even when the State is prosecuting properly It would be no comfort to wake in a hospital bed with your jaw wired shut and a traumatic brain injury to be "legally in the right."
When the State is compromised, as it is now in many states, it would be flat out humiliating to find your attacker was given a year of probation for kicking you in the head because he just kinda felt like it. It sends the message to criminals that they won't face consequences. It sends the message to the law-abiding citizens that their suffering is worth less than the freedom of a violent psychopath.
This is the line in a civilized society, and individual citizens have the moral right to hold that line. There is no valid reason to physically assault someone who hasn't done anything to you. There is no valid reason to let someone attack you and hope the cops come to rescue you before you suffer grievous injuries.
A thug who is considering violently attacking someone should absolutely have the fear that they will suffer immediate consequences for their actions.
FWIW, I upvoted your post. I never downvote for disagreement if it is thoughtful and interesting.
Old man shoved into a corner in his store by attack dawg (literally only there to attack). Was not going to be let out (actually grabbed as he looks to have gotten the knife), another customer couldn't convince dawg to leave it be.
I get it. A gun or knife needs to be presented in the letter of the law. But what, realistically, could he do to stop further violence/harassment against him, even if it could be understood that he wasn't in danger for his life?
Honestly, he should have had mace. Frankly, he should have used it as soon as both of them came back in the store. He would have been fine had he seen them walk in with an attitude and just maced them.
The problem is that he got himself stuck:
But because he didn't have anything really prepared except for a knife, the only real option, especially with state law, that he had was to do nothing.
The lesson here is to not put yourself in such a situation, especially when mace is pretty cheap and available.
He was battered in his own store by some jackass he'd never seen before, in a city that spent the last 2 years releasing CONVICTED violent offenders because covid, and was smaller and older than his assailant. Get your head checked.
Being smaller and older doesn't justify lethal force on the face of it. You need something to articulate. Check your own head so you stop seeing what you want to see, and look at what's in front of you.
in a democrat run area probably, in a human run area no prosecutor would go anywhere near this case after seeing the tape
Entirely wrong. Most prosecutors would go after this because of the tape, because it's damning.
Most prosecutors are happy to convict innocent people as it is. Alba happens to look genuinely guilty of murder here.
*Laughs in Kyle Rittenhouse*
Kyle Rittenhouse didn't pull a gun. Rosenbaum literally charged at him like a screaming psychopath, pursued him as Kyle fled, continued charging when Kyle pointed the gun at him, still pursued him, and tried to take his gun.
Kyle Rittenhouse didn't do anything wrong. This guy absolutely did.
I know there were differences, I was mainly joking, since Rosenbaum did yell "shoot me, nigga!"