Survivor guilt
(twitter.com)
You're viewing a single comment thread. View all comments, or full comment thread.
Comments (90)
sorted by:
No, it won't. ... Good damn you...
You can't have infinite density hydrogen cyanide floating above air because it's "lighter". As you increase the parts per million, the gas will still disperse, just not evenly everywhere.
And this wouldn't make any difference where you put an entrance for the gas.
For god's sake your argument would defeat the purpose of fumigation and delousing as well. By your own argument, it would be physically impossible to fumigate buildings because the hydrogen cyanide would only go to the ceilings. Yet we know for a fact that it was used for both fumigation and murder.
On top of that, if you push a dense crowd of strangers together they're not just going to quietly and orderly lay on the ground.
You're proving my case about the ignorance, man.
Because typhus is a disease, is not efficient at all, can kill off the guards, can spread to the local population, will leave some people alive, and can't be readily deployed or contained.
Yes, a poison gas chamber is a much more reasonable process of murdering people than infecting everyone with typhus and hoping for the best.
If you increase the parts per million, you're either a) extracting oxygen below or b) pressurizing the chamber. That's the only way the mechanics of it work at all, and I haven't seen any evidence of air ventilation or circulation systems. Maybe pressurization, but again, it's a lot of work for poor gains. When people are surviving multiple trips (probably the best evidence that they were, in fact, used), you'd expect a refinement of a design if there's widespread implementation. No real evidence of that.
It's not that I don't believe such a method was used, just that I have doubts the method was much beyond experimental. They didn't seem to work very well, base on eyewitness testimony and description.
For typhus, delousing stations (and zyklon B) were widespread precisely because of German knowledge of typhus. Still, it ran rampant through German ranks and camps. The idea that it could spread where you don't want it is silly, because it's documented fact that it did. All you need to make it incredibly deadly is to neglect treatment. Add in some malnourishment to increase efficacy. Sulfonamides, rest, and nourishment would have been adequate for most to recover, though, if you had the supplies and desire.
Yeah, why seal a gas chamber, who would think of that? /s.
It isn't. It's very straightforward, and the gains are self-evident.
Too bad that's not what the witness testimony suggests.
The neglect and malnourishment was already present in all of the Ghettos and Work Camps, let alone the extermination ones. One of the lesser spoken of problems during the end of the Holocaust was the thousands of camp survivors that died from being fed too much by allied troops.
Again, this isn't a proper way to murder people in an industrial system. The objective is to murder all of the Jews, in addition to other populations that didn't take priority killing. These are huge numbers of people. It has to be done in an orderly and efficient fashion. Typhus and malnourishment are not effective means of doing this. You 'd be getting far too many people in, not enough dying quickly, and you'd be endangering the camp to potential rebellion and disease.
The problem, again, is lack of evidence. Also, the existence of survivors speak to gas pocketing.
Yeah, and it wasn't by any stretch of the imagination. I get that the Einsatzgruppen were mentally scarred from wholesale slaughter in Poland, so that wasn't the way to go about it. What they instead resorted to were inefficient killing machines with regular survivors? That's how you prevent a prison riot?
Many inmates spent well over a year being transferred among different camps, and you think a 2-3 week disease is too slow a method? An already established disease? If anything, transferring ever wreaking prisoners to ever worse conditions would be the absolute best form of mass murder.
You don't really need gas chambers to make Nazis evil. After all the lampshade and soap bullshit, it's good to be critical. That's not absolution or anything, but seriously, fuck claims without evidence.
By compartmentalization and information hiding. People weren't told they were going to be exterminated. Treblinka, many trainloads were segregated out into smaller segments that didn't know what was happening to each segment, as each segment was taken to gas chambers and murdered. Even in the camp, Sonderkommandos were not allowed to interact with other prisoners, and had their own specific housing away from other parts of the base. Though the role of the Sonderkommando was pivitol in the extermination campaign, these prisoners had to be regularly killed as well to stave off uprisings.
Again, if I am remembering Treblinka correctly, it is an extremely small camp. There is no way for them to have relied on waiting weeks for the vast amounts of people they were getting to house everyone. Even when you look at Nazi prison camps for allied soldiers, they are huge complexes. And the allies weren't necessarily surrendering en masse. Treblinka was executing people within minutes or hours of arrival so they could take another load of people.
This aspect of the Holocaust is what makes it important for study. This is a genuine industrial process. It's not just open murder like Rawanda, or intentional starvation like Ukraine, or sheer incompetence like China.
Treblinka also answers your question about how the National Socialists prevented prison riots, and also how they failed to do so, because there was an uprising.
No, it isn't. It's a terrible method that's disorderly, doesn't easily discriminate by race, and can effect the rest of the German population. Besides the fact that you don't even have a good way of implementing it. You can see the state of survivors of both death and concentration camps, and despite horrific conditions, they still weren't dead. This is not as effective as simply murder.
We can flip this around and do the same thing of Katyn. Why didn't the Soviets just wait for everyone to get sick? Because it was significantly more efficient to just shoot them 1 at a time in a killing room.
You're not getting the point of why you build an extermination camp. It is effectively a form of Capital Investment in murder as a process.
The Socialist part is enough to vouch for that, but that's not the important aspect of the Holocaust. It was the industrialization of murder that's of particular note.