“The system is set up against me” by giving me free housing and income
(media.scored.co)
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This isn't true at all. I'm atheist and I feel happy and content and at peace. I love life, and I love my life.
It's your religion, Christianity, that brings the idea that life on this earth is a "vale of tears". Your religion defiles and demeans our earthy existence, telling us that we must suffer because of the original sin. We could just be happy and enjoy our lives, but no, we must be miserable and feel guilty.
It's your religion that brought to you the sense of dread and suffering that you feel (which you now think it's a natural part of the human existence), to which it then offers a solution, for which you are expected to be grateful for. It's a well know technique of manipulation: you feel grateful to Jesus for saving you from a sin... that he originally condemned you to.
Life is struggle. This has been recognized by philosophers that pre-date Christ. It is recognition of the second law of thermodynamics. The universe in general and your life in specific requires struggle, effort, energy to do anything but coast to a stop and die.
If you stop struggling, everything you've worked for, everything you have built will just drain away, and you'll be left with nothing.
Even if, by the grace of good fortune, you have a pile of resources that requires no effort or struggle to maintain or administrate, it just means that there was earlier struggle. You are coasting down from the top of a taller hill.
Moreover, if you want to improve more than your life, if you want to improve your family, city or country, then that will take fantastic struggle. Not only against the natural forces of empathy, but against the self-absorbed useful idiots, who work against you with every step.
That you blame Christianity for this universal condition says much more about you than it does about the world.
Of course life is struggle. It's a principle of Nature very well accepted by National Socialism.
But this doesn't mean that you can't find happiness on this earth. Go back reading my previous comment, because you haven't understood it.
I think I understand you just fine.
If you think you can struggle without suffering, then good for you.
My point stands. You are projecting like a motherfucker.
There is pain in life, therefore, a judgemental guy is watching you from the sky. Oy veyyy
Cannot agree more.
Life was meant to be lived in the present. When mortal pain comes by, we even have biological measures (shock, uncousciousness) to just turn off so that we don't have to suffer all the pain of animal death.
The idea of being born a 'sinner' is utterly retarded and against all kinds of justice and to think it coming from a 'god'... really strips him of all godliness anyway.
There's honestly too much to unload on the topic as a whole, but I think you and ApexVeritas both have some good points. And when it comes to human suffering, whether talking about ourselves or others, it's difficult to avoid downplaying or overplaying things at least a little bit.
I've heard religious sermons that try to downplay the sheer depth of what people can suffer and experience, all while promoting the notion that God's comfort will carry anyone through anything. Which I find both absurd and insulting, when considering more extreme experiences that have been all too frequent throughout human history.
And then on the flipside there's woketards, who will lament just about anything they can conceivably bitch about and cry crocodile tears on social media about it all for years. Or woketard agendas that try to overplay the suffering of x, y, or y groups, all so they can throw more political money and power grabbing laws into the mix.
And then even when there are legitimate situations where people are suffering, there's only so much that can practically be done to do a damn thing. Whether we're talking about people in our own country, or in countries abroad.
It just all sucks sometimes. And far too many people claim to have all the answers.
You make good points, and I think what you wrote is compatible with what I said. The difference between me and the Christian vision is that for me suffering can exist in certain circumstances, but happiness and contentment in this life is not only possible - it's very common at least in our era. If you're physically healthy, you have a loving family, and enough money to have a roof over your head and food on your table: then you're not suffering and you should be happy.
Christianity on the other hand tells you that you are suffering regardless of how your life is, because suffering is intrinsic to human life. And it makes sure of that by instilling a sense of guilt for everything that is pleasurable in life. In the Bible a woman was basically saying to enjoy your life having sex and eating food, and Jesus... kills her children. Christianity hates the idea that people may be happy. Nietzsche is absolutely right on Christianity. Yes, I am anti-Christian because Christianity has brought so much suffering and misery to humanity. We could just be all happy eating, resting, fucking, loving, being proud of our accomplishments, but no... all of those are sins.
Oh I understand and to quite a large degree agree with what you're saying. I've read and agreed with a lot of what Nietzsche wrote as well.
But for myself at least I just can't hold religion totally responsible for human failings. It only plays into my own suppositions and sometimes misplaced anger/blame. And It's something I realized as one of the main things that's held me back for years from trying to pursue what I want out of life.
I'll still hold firmly onto my reasoning and beliefs, which lean very much towards atheism, but I let myself get far too tunnel visioned over my personal baggage with religion. And I realized I'd deluded myself into creating an enemy in my own mind that was nowhere near as much of an issue as I'd led myself to believe. Which is not only irrational, but ends up being very self defeating in a lot of ways.
I won't assume that's in any way shape or form applicable to you or your history, I'm just trying to explain my own reasoning as honestly as I can.
That specific user is a vociferous anti-Christian. He constantly misquotes scripture, often interpreting it to mean the opposite of what is says, and then when confronted with a refutation, refuses to acknowledge it, no matter how well laid out it is. There's lots of examples of him doing so in c/consumeproduct.
I thought I worded my initial comment well enough that it could be viewed through a Christian lens, or through an atheist or agnostic lens. The logic is sound and the relevant remarks on human behavior are blatantly obvious. But, since the above user is anti-Christian, he only wants to challenge what I said because I mentioned God in it, and presented an explanation for why God wouldn't intervene in human suffering.
I was also not implying that all suffering can be dismissed, or is equal. There's a clear distinction and difference between different forms and magnitudes of suffering. Some people truly do suffer terrible things in this life. We see all manner of such things posted here daily.
Sorry for the late response. And I hope this comment's clear, I'm drowsy as hell right now, so try and bear with me.
That section of my comment wasn't exactly directed towards what you wrote so much as in response to what I've hard from a handful of other Christians in the past year (Not from anyone on these boards, just for context).
And before I posted my previous comment I did glance through what you wrote and recognized that you weren't really trying to minimize human suffering. Which is why I was being broad in my words.
But I did want to get the point across that with some Christians I've encountered (and with people from other backgrounds/beliefs too) sometimes it comes off that way in the phrasing, or does come from someone with a legitimately dismissive attitude.
And I was trying to honestly... just try to do something to help heal some of the divide. I've been trying to do that for myself in my own personal life, still have some long lasting baggage with religion, but I try to recognize that my sometimes instinctive knee-jerk reaction is both rushed and often times misplaced blame.
Thanks for the clarification. I agree. There are a lot of Christians, or people in general, that try to explain away or minimize suffering, within the context of my warnings about it (as highlighted in my lengthy initial comment).
Thank you. I try to do the same. That's why I generally try to remain amicable despite some incredibly toxic comments I get (not you, but there are a lot of users on this site, and many other social media sites) that are nothing but toxic. I only recently came back to Christianity, being agnostic most of my life. Only after fully realizing the answers to some very deep questions, and understanding how truth is nearly synonymous to God, did I fully understand and convert back to Christianity. I was raised Christian as a kid, to clarify. But, there are some extremely vitriolic anti-Christians, that do nothing but misquote scripture and try to lay blame for all the world's ills at our feet. It's maddening, but understandable given the current atmosphere, propaganda, and that the people in power are vociferously anti-Christian.
Given the forces and evil arrayed against us, I try to stay on peaceful terms with my neighbors and people who aren't Christian, so as to work together for common cause. Given how anti-Christian many of them can be, it's difficult sometimes. In any case, this is why I explain things from a non-Christian and Christian perspective, because the logic works both ways. Most of my writings are written from a non-Christian perspective, as that's who I was prior to realizing the connection.
I did no such thing. In fact, if there is a God like your religion envisions it, I do agree with your explanation. Only by knowing suffering we can understand happiness, so God cannot remove suffering at least not without making us lose a significant part of the life experience that makes it valuable. The concept of God creating sentient beings with free will and that will have to experience life even through suffering makes perfect sense. The atheist argument of "there's evil in the world so there's no god reeeee" is not a good argument. We wouldn't know good without knowing evil.
I was however responding to your claim that:
I disagree with this.
You're lying. Just yesterday I proved to you that Jesus destroyed the family bonds, and you refused to acknowledge it and even to answer my thought experiments that proved that.
You're the most dishonest user I've seen on here. Which of course you have to be, to keep believing in your Jewish religion. But please refrain from talking behind my back to other people. That's dishonorable even for a Christian.