...you don't see me, or acknowledge me at all, no matter how many time I tell you what I am and what my opinions are.
Cringe!
You don't care, because you have a narrative to fulfill.
What's the narrative? Go ahead, tell me what my narrative is. National Socialism, right? Total Jew death, right? None of which I've ever called for or hinted at, yet you keep smearing a bunch of us with that nonsense.
Since you've argued against it, then let's say your only issue is AIPAC themselves, as an institution...
What would my other issue be? Go ahead. I'm getting tired of your nonsense, man.
...perchance even as a front for Mossad, just for giggles (because lobbyist organizations aren't known for assassinating people on their lonesome).
Uhm, "lobbyists" are often just literal mobsters, in the right circumstance. Are you saying politically connected agents have never killed anyone? Dem-connected groups have killed people. Republican-connected groups have killed people. Lobbyist organizations have killed people. Unions have killed people. It's all corrupt. Yeah, lobbyist-connected people would absolutely kill to further political ends.
You're saying that AIPAC is so scared that a single congressman from Kentucky will upend their entire influence racket (despite the fact that they have in-roads with the whole of congress, senate, and both presidential candidates), that they are going to murder his wife.
Where did I say they were scared? Seriously, where? I said they could potentially be sending a message. Which is "don't fuck with us." Which, even given your framework, would be required. They have to keep that position. They have to keep that near 100% success rate. They have to be able to say "see, being pro-Israel is good business." It's their whole racket. So, yes, in that case, if Massie slipped through the cracks, or if they hadn't taken out that retard Bowman, or anyone else they campaigned against, those people are threats. Not necessarily on their own, but it snowballs. Massie doesn't singlehandedly destroy AIPAC's influence, but it does hurt them.
Not him, that would be obviously crazy. No no, they are going to murder his wife.
Yeah. Nowhere in history has anyone ever killed an enemy's family. That's retarded, you're right. Why do that, when you can kill the man himself? Yeah! You're so smart. Never happens.
You're reaching, bigly.
I'll bet you that Ilhan Omar doesn't have an AIPAC person.
And she and "the Squad" are literally on the AIPAC (political) hitlist. They're actively campaigning against those people. So I don't get your point.
"First, @JamaalBowmanNY. Now, @CoriBush." - AIPAC retweeted that the day Massie's wife died. And, no, I'm not saying they're connected, just pointing out it's recent. They literally have hitlists on the Squad.
That's lunacy. Massie is, himself, not relevant enough or powerful enough to assassinate (nor is murdering his wife necessary).
He's one of less than five hundred people in Congress. That's incredibly relevant. He's around a quarter of a percent, on his own. And he gets to speak to the others, and the press. And you only need 218 to pass something.
Also, who said anything about necessary? No action is every strictly necessary. But it might be expedient, or otherwise a good way toward progressing your goals.
He has done nothing to impact AIPAC funding...
But he hurt their record. They've been trying to get rid of him, but keep failing. It hurts their record and their image. You kill someone before they can hurt you, if you're playing that game. Again, this really isn't rocket science.
There are major forces looking to defund AIPAC, and all of them are Pro-Palestinian Progressive candidates.
Oh, please get a new schtick, man.
Let's try this: If Massie explains the death of his wife as having been from natural circumstances, and his AIPAC position does not change; will you admit you are wrong?
Wrong about what? That I thought it was a potential assassination? Nope. At the moment I do think that.
Is there any way you would recognize your claim to be false?
You'll notice I'm not going to do the massive quote-thing because it breaks up conversations, and typically removes context from the very thing that gets quoted. It gets even worse, when those quotes get broken into even more quotes in the responses, and then you quote responses of quotes which lose track of the entire conversation.
Political hit-lists, are not real hit-lists. That is why The Squad, and their family members are not assassinated. The Pro-Palestinian Progressives are not a schtick, they are the primary anti-Israel force in the US and have been for some time. AIPAC doesn't have a 100% success rate, they didn't before, and they don't now, and I've seen nothing to suggest they killed anyone's family.
Your original claim was that AIPAC assassinated Massie's wife. You stated it unequivocally. It does seem like you are now backing off that claim by denying you made it.
You'll notice I'm not going to do the massive quote-thing because it breaks up conversations, and typically removes context from the very thing that gets quoted.
It's just how I structure my thoughts. Plenty of people do it. And I don't just do it when I'm arguing against people. But, sure, attack the medium, when you're badly losing the argument.
Not only am I a Nazi, but I structure my internet arguments wrong too, you got me.
Political hit-lists, are not real hit-lists.
Which. Is. Why. I. Specified. That. It. Was. A. Political. Hit. List.
If I thought they were the same, I would have just left it at 'hit list,' dude.
The Pro-Palestinian Progressives are not a schtick...
I didn't say they were, I said you blaming everything on them, and trying to smear anyone who criticizes Israel of being a socialist/communist/progressive/whatever, was a schtick.
I'd ask you to get some reading comprehension, but I know it's intentional. You've said I demand 'good faith,' and I do, but you're really arguing in incredibly bad faith, non stop. It's weak shit.
Your original claim was that AIPAC assassinated Massie's wife. You stated it unequivocally. It does seem like you are now backing off that claim by denying you made it.
Uhm. Every time you've asked if that's my claim, I've said no. I suspect they killed his wife. You know this. Again, you're being intentionally obtuse.
Again, you are projecting the level of generalization and bad faith that you are using against me as if I'm using it against you. I didn't say that your quotes are wrong. I just know that people inevitably claim "you're not responding to my arguments, you know your losing the argument", as you did, when they notice I'm not quoting them. I'm just saying I find it to be unhelpful.
I know you specified political hit-lists. That is my point. A political hit-list is a lot different from a real hit-list. We can't assume that someone with a political hit-list is interested in actual hits.
And since you want be to be extremely specific with your wording, you didn't say that I blame Pro-Palestinian Progressives, despite your current statement. You basically didn't say anything at all besides a kind of generic dismissal. That is why demanding I not imply anything from your comments is a problem. And no, I don't smear everyone as socialist/communist/progressive because those are all different things.
You haven't been arguing in good faith, because you've assumed, from the outset, that I've been arguing in bad faith. Despite the fact that I immediately backed down from saying that you claimed that international jewry assassinated Massie's wife. This is because I believe you and acted accordingly.
I didn't ask you once about your initial claim because your initial claim was clear and unequivocal; but you backed down from it, so there's nothing to really argue about except the argument.
Again, you are projecting the level of generalization and bad faith that you are using against me as if I'm using it against you.
Dude, Kienan has been 100% reasonable in this exchange. I believe that he believes everything as he wrote it, it's clearly laid out, and the logic is sound if you accept his premises (i.e. political organizations are perfectly capable of killing to send a message, because they're all basically criminal organizations, and AIPAC has a clear motive to send a message at a time when people are getting fed up with Israel's clear influence over US politics).
You don't even attempt to argue against that, instead you go 10 comments deep moving the goalposts all over the fucking field in an attempt to ignore it so that you can call people Nazis.
I guess since nobody in AOC's immediate family has died, it's crazy to even think that AIPAC could be behind another potential death. QED.
Again, you are projecting the level of generalization and bad faith that you are using against me as if I'm using it against you.
Where have I been bad faith?
I didn't say that your quotes are wrong. I just know that people inevitably claim "you're not responding to my arguments, you know your losing the argument", as you did, when they notice I'm not quoting them. I'm just saying I find it to be unhelpful.
Alright, fair enough. And, for the record, I'm not even trying to prove a point, being like 'see, I can admit when I'm wrong,' or something. No, I guess I misunderstood what you were saying in this case, and you're correct; picking apart text like I sometimes do - and am currently doing - can lead to certain conclusions. That wasn't my intent. Again, it's just how I structure my thoughts. But I do apologize, it wasn't my intent, and I can see how such nitpicky quotations could come across as overly aggressive.
I know you specified political hit-lists. That is my point. A political hit-list is a lot different from a real hit-list. We can't assume that someone with a political hit-list is interested in actual hits.
We can't conclude or assume anything. But, at the very least, the possibility is there that when political methodology fails, groups may be tempted to take more physical approaches. Again, not even saying it happened in this case, but there is motive, and the possibility.
You basically didn't say anything at all besides a kind of generic dismissal.
I honestly don't quite get what you're saying. Ironically, this would be a good time to quote what you're talking about, that I said. Feel free to clarify though.
That is why demanding I not imply anything from your comments is a problem.
I don't think I ever demanded anything. I disagreed with numerous things you were implying about me. You're allowed to, and I'm allowed to disagree. Go wild. Outright call me a Nazi if you feel like it; you're allowed to do that.
And no, I don't smear everyone as socialist/communist/progressive because those are all different things.
You mentioned all of those things, and labeled various people, some of those things, where I personally don't believe they fit. Again, you're allowed to do that. I just didn't agree.
You haven't been arguing in good faith, because you've assumed, from the outset, that I've been arguing in bad faith.
I'm allowed to assume things. I don't think I've treated you unfairly. I've said my part, you've said yours. I've listened to you. I hope you've listened to me. That's just how this goes. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I don't think I've been operating in bad faith.
It takes more than just thinking your opponent is a little shifty to be considered "bad faith argument," in my opinion. I could think you're a lying bastard, and still argue in good faith. Good or bad faith is just how I conduct myself; it has nothing to do with who I think my opponent is.
If I'm lying, being disingenuous, sneaky, or otherwise not admitting it if I realize I'm wrong, I'd say that's bad faith. If I argue my position, and what I believe to be correct...it doesn't matter whether I think you're good faith, bad faith, smart, retarded, good, or evil. It doesn't even matter if I'm correct or incorrect. As long as I'm not being a bastard myself, I can argue in good faith.
Despite the fact that I immediately backed down from saying that you claimed that international jewry assassinated Massie's wife. This is because I believe you and acted accordingly.
Did you? Well, if so, I appreciate that. Because I don't think the internationally Jewry killed Massie's wife. I do think there's a strong possibility Massie's wife was murdered, given the timing, and there were likely some Jews involved considering the current players but, no, I do not believe it was The Jews as a whole. Ze Jews did not kill Rhonda Massie.
I didn't ask you once about your initial claim because your initial claim was clear and unequivocal; but you backed down from it, so there's nothing to really argue about except the argument.
My initial claim:
"I'm beyond infuriated. Massie is just about the only decent human in that shithole, and they (probably) just killed his wife."
I stand by that. One hundred percent. It's tragic. Thomas Massie is a good dude, and I do think this was, probably, a hit.
If you're talking about my second statement:
"They've done it before, they did it again, and they'll keep doing it."
I stand by that too. They have done it before, they have done it again, and they will keep doing it. I haven't backed down from shit.
Cringe!
What's the narrative? Go ahead, tell me what my narrative is. National Socialism, right? Total Jew death, right? None of which I've ever called for or hinted at, yet you keep smearing a bunch of us with that nonsense.
What would my other issue be? Go ahead. I'm getting tired of your nonsense, man.
Uhm, "lobbyists" are often just literal mobsters, in the right circumstance. Are you saying politically connected agents have never killed anyone? Dem-connected groups have killed people. Republican-connected groups have killed people. Lobbyist organizations have killed people. Unions have killed people. It's all corrupt. Yeah, lobbyist-connected people would absolutely kill to further political ends.
Where did I say they were scared? Seriously, where? I said they could potentially be sending a message. Which is "don't fuck with us." Which, even given your framework, would be required. They have to keep that position. They have to keep that near 100% success rate. They have to be able to say "see, being pro-Israel is good business." It's their whole racket. So, yes, in that case, if Massie slipped through the cracks, or if they hadn't taken out that retard Bowman, or anyone else they campaigned against, those people are threats. Not necessarily on their own, but it snowballs. Massie doesn't singlehandedly destroy AIPAC's influence, but it does hurt them.
Yeah. Nowhere in history has anyone ever killed an enemy's family. That's retarded, you're right. Why do that, when you can kill the man himself? Yeah! You're so smart. Never happens.
You're reaching, bigly.
And she and "the Squad" are literally on the AIPAC (political) hitlist. They're actively campaigning against those people. So I don't get your point.
"First, @JamaalBowmanNY. Now, @CoriBush." - AIPAC retweeted that the day Massie's wife died. And, no, I'm not saying they're connected, just pointing out it's recent. They literally have hitlists on the Squad.
He's one of less than five hundred people in Congress. That's incredibly relevant. He's around a quarter of a percent, on his own. And he gets to speak to the others, and the press. And you only need 218 to pass something.
Also, who said anything about necessary? No action is every strictly necessary. But it might be expedient, or otherwise a good way toward progressing your goals.
But he hurt their record. They've been trying to get rid of him, but keep failing. It hurts their record and their image. You kill someone before they can hurt you, if you're playing that game. Again, this really isn't rocket science.
Oh, please get a new schtick, man.
Wrong about what? That I thought it was a potential assassination? Nope. At the moment I do think that.
What. Claim.
You're being ridiculous.
You'll notice I'm not going to do the massive quote-thing because it breaks up conversations, and typically removes context from the very thing that gets quoted. It gets even worse, when those quotes get broken into even more quotes in the responses, and then you quote responses of quotes which lose track of the entire conversation.
Political hit-lists, are not real hit-lists. That is why The Squad, and their family members are not assassinated. The Pro-Palestinian Progressives are not a schtick, they are the primary anti-Israel force in the US and have been for some time. AIPAC doesn't have a 100% success rate, they didn't before, and they don't now, and I've seen nothing to suggest they killed anyone's family.
Your original claim was that AIPAC assassinated Massie's wife. You stated it unequivocally. It does seem like you are now backing off that claim by denying you made it.
It's just how I structure my thoughts. Plenty of people do it. And I don't just do it when I'm arguing against people. But, sure, attack the medium, when you're badly losing the argument.
Not only am I a Nazi, but I structure my internet arguments wrong too, you got me.
Which. Is. Why. I. Specified. That. It. Was. A. Political. Hit. List.
If I thought they were the same, I would have just left it at 'hit list,' dude.
I didn't say they were, I said you blaming everything on them, and trying to smear anyone who criticizes Israel of being a socialist/communist/progressive/whatever, was a schtick.
I'd ask you to get some reading comprehension, but I know it's intentional. You've said I demand 'good faith,' and I do, but you're really arguing in incredibly bad faith, non stop. It's weak shit.
Uhm. Every time you've asked if that's my claim, I've said no. I suspect they killed his wife. You know this. Again, you're being intentionally obtuse.
Again, you are projecting the level of generalization and bad faith that you are using against me as if I'm using it against you. I didn't say that your quotes are wrong. I just know that people inevitably claim "you're not responding to my arguments, you know your losing the argument", as you did, when they notice I'm not quoting them. I'm just saying I find it to be unhelpful.
I know you specified political hit-lists. That is my point. A political hit-list is a lot different from a real hit-list. We can't assume that someone with a political hit-list is interested in actual hits.
And since you want be to be extremely specific with your wording, you didn't say that I blame Pro-Palestinian Progressives, despite your current statement. You basically didn't say anything at all besides a kind of generic dismissal. That is why demanding I not imply anything from your comments is a problem. And no, I don't smear everyone as socialist/communist/progressive because those are all different things.
You haven't been arguing in good faith, because you've assumed, from the outset, that I've been arguing in bad faith. Despite the fact that I immediately backed down from saying that you claimed that international jewry assassinated Massie's wife. This is because I believe you and acted accordingly.
I didn't ask you once about your initial claim because your initial claim was clear and unequivocal; but you backed down from it, so there's nothing to really argue about except the argument.
Dude, Kienan has been 100% reasonable in this exchange. I believe that he believes everything as he wrote it, it's clearly laid out, and the logic is sound if you accept his premises (i.e. political organizations are perfectly capable of killing to send a message, because they're all basically criminal organizations, and AIPAC has a clear motive to send a message at a time when people are getting fed up with Israel's clear influence over US politics).
You don't even attempt to argue against that, instead you go 10 comments deep moving the goalposts all over the fucking field in an attempt to ignore it so that you can call people Nazis.
I guess since nobody in AOC's immediate family has died, it's crazy to even think that AIPAC could be behind another potential death. QED.
Where have I been bad faith?
Alright, fair enough. And, for the record, I'm not even trying to prove a point, being like 'see, I can admit when I'm wrong,' or something. No, I guess I misunderstood what you were saying in this case, and you're correct; picking apart text like I sometimes do - and am currently doing - can lead to certain conclusions. That wasn't my intent. Again, it's just how I structure my thoughts. But I do apologize, it wasn't my intent, and I can see how such nitpicky quotations could come across as overly aggressive.
We can't conclude or assume anything. But, at the very least, the possibility is there that when political methodology fails, groups may be tempted to take more physical approaches. Again, not even saying it happened in this case, but there is motive, and the possibility.
I honestly don't quite get what you're saying. Ironically, this would be a good time to quote what you're talking about, that I said. Feel free to clarify though.
I don't think I ever demanded anything. I disagreed with numerous things you were implying about me. You're allowed to, and I'm allowed to disagree. Go wild. Outright call me a Nazi if you feel like it; you're allowed to do that.
You mentioned all of those things, and labeled various people, some of those things, where I personally don't believe they fit. Again, you're allowed to do that. I just didn't agree.
I'm allowed to assume things. I don't think I've treated you unfairly. I've said my part, you've said yours. I've listened to you. I hope you've listened to me. That's just how this goes. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I don't think I've been operating in bad faith.
It takes more than just thinking your opponent is a little shifty to be considered "bad faith argument," in my opinion. I could think you're a lying bastard, and still argue in good faith. Good or bad faith is just how I conduct myself; it has nothing to do with who I think my opponent is.
If I'm lying, being disingenuous, sneaky, or otherwise not admitting it if I realize I'm wrong, I'd say that's bad faith. If I argue my position, and what I believe to be correct...it doesn't matter whether I think you're good faith, bad faith, smart, retarded, good, or evil. It doesn't even matter if I'm correct or incorrect. As long as I'm not being a bastard myself, I can argue in good faith.
Did you? Well, if so, I appreciate that. Because I don't think the internationally Jewry killed Massie's wife. I do think there's a strong possibility Massie's wife was murdered, given the timing, and there were likely some Jews involved considering the current players but, no, I do not believe it was The Jews as a whole. Ze Jews did not kill Rhonda Massie.
My initial claim:
"I'm beyond infuriated. Massie is just about the only decent human in that shithole, and they (probably) just killed his wife."
I stand by that. One hundred percent. It's tragic. Thomas Massie is a good dude, and I do think this was, probably, a hit.
If you're talking about my second statement:
"They've done it before, they did it again, and they'll keep doing it."
I stand by that too. They have done it before, they have done it again, and they will keep doing it. I haven't backed down from shit.