Inceldom goes so much deeper than simply 'not getting laid' it's the feeling of being absolutely rejected by society and feeling like they're too ugly to even be noticed by women.
The Black Pill. That is probably my biggest disagreement with the "incel community". Most of these guys aren't that ugly, they're just socially awkward & lack charisma at the bare minimum, also some may be lacking in the money department to even do a cheap first date.
Society will tell you "women are equal to men" but if you're a man having trouble geting dates, they will tell you "you need to learn to talk to women" as if women are different than men, society is only right on the 2nd part because they're wrong on the 1st part.
Saying the right things, the right way (with confidence & no social awkwardness) wows a woman. A woman needs to be wow'd to even want to give an above average guy a chance, much less an average guy or below average guy. Women aren't as visual as men, and will generally only note a guy's looks on the extreme ends of handsome & ugly. By extreme end of ugly, I mean has a birth defect or was in a major accident, not just "really ugly".
The thing that makes them truly an incel, is the psychologically poisoned response of defeatism and resentment where they've stewed in their madness so thoroughly that they can't even be asked to try to improve themselves. That's what actually makes them so toxic. I can't tolerate someone who is dedicated to destroying themselves and taking others with them.
I've even gone on here to explain that the mentality of "no man below a 4 is capable of being in a relationship with a woman, even with a six figure salary" is both reductive, not based in evidence, and simple defeatism. My normal citation is that I have a married friend who is a 1 and he married a 1. That's entirely normal. People actually pair bond to similar attractiveness. There's a lot more women who are getting run through, and some that are taking i polygyny; but your average unattractive woman doesn't have more than a couple sexual partners a year, if that. It's true, they just don't want to get it.
There will always be a small minority of men and an significantly lower minority of women who will be single and childless through their lives. If I recall from a Norwegian study, around 25% of men are childless at 40 compared to 15% of women. Was the case prior to the Internet and will be the case forever more. These people are simply not capable of finding partners, a significant proportion of which is genetic or medical and can't be fixed by telling them to "lift" or "touch grass". The only difference now is that prior to the Internet, these people would keep themselves to themselves at home and would not communicate with other like minded people, which they can now do online and worldwide, that equates to many millions of people.
First I think those numbers are way to high. 25% of men being childless doesn't sound like it would fit in any environment except the modern one. That is an extreme number, and normally, it would lead to massive population loss. The real numbers are probably both well below 10%. In earlier epochs, being childless was genuinely abnormal and rare. Even the Boomers would have told you that number was high. This is why when we see stats from Japan saying 40% of men under 35 haven't had a sexual partner is catastrophic. That is an extreme aberration that is not replicated at any other point in human history. Same with the suicide rate among young adults. It's telling when a modern western man meets with an isolated tribal people, and that those people have almost never heard of suicide, and find it unfathomable.
Second, most of these people who were childless did not just isolate themselves at home, that is a also sickness of post-modernity. (Not even modernity was that bad).
Many of those childless people would have been productive members of society in one way or another: men who worked remote and on the fringes of society who could not settle down due to the work: like pioneers, explorers, sailing merchants, etc. Many of them would have been deeply involved in other work that would be otherwise relatively self-isolating, but community supporting: monks, priests, craftsmen, fishermen, truckers, etc. Except for the monks, prostitutes actually had a moderately wholesome role of being a kind of mimic to those more isolated men who couldn't settle down and raise a family due to the circumstances of their work. I remember an NPR documentary covering over a strip-club that was in a pretty remote part of Minnesota. Most of the clientele were truckers who were older and quite well behaved. This includes more than one of them dropping off a full turkey... to the strip club. It was an attempt to mimic something akin to a family due to circumstances. They would not have been "incels", or even really sexless at all.
This is a far more serious pathology of the modern era.
There's a video yesterday by Wheat Waffles who is one of the prominent voices around the black pill (spoiler alert - the black pill is more aligned to what evolutionary psychologists are finding about human nature because mating and nature is brutal and doesn't care about your feelings) where he provides a paid service rating men's looks with university students.
One of his conclusions was that women will reject you for one fundamental flaw as opposed to doing a cost/benefit analysis to see if you would be a net positive or negative. Which makes sense as women (even older, unattractive women) have lots of options and the majority of men have little to none.
One of his other conclusion is that if you're average looking (not that ugly) or below, he may as well have rated them as zero. The women he asked wanted nothing to do with these men and subsequently that equates to zero, rather than the 1-9 scale he used.
Actual incels have self defeating responses to their issues, and I don't think that should be defended. Still, I have way more respect for them than I do the male feminists. The latter aren't any more sexually successful than the former, but at least the former know that something is fucked up.
People think that the solution is to tell them to "lift" and "touch grass". But how does that make them get to six feet in height or cure their autism or solve their speech impediment, fix their balding or deal with half their personality traits that are genetic and inherited?
This advice is like telling someone with a 1970s hatchback that if they just try hard and believe, they can turn that car into a 2023 sports car. You can tweak that car, improve its performance or even put a sports car manufacturers badge on it to delude yourself but you're not fooling anyone. It's still a 1970s hatchback underneath that veneer and always will be. In the same way, you can call yourself a woman but you'll always have XY chromosomes and will never produce large gametes (eggs) but only small gametes (sperm).
Life is inherently unfair and everyone has a different pack of cards when they are born. Incels were given the jokers in the real world game of poker. That's not defeatist or negative, that's reality regrettably. Stardusk The Thinking Ape described it aptly - life is cope.
Pursuing superficial women for superficial relationships is where all that comes into play. Being obsessed with being a degenerate, as if the "chads" are somehow something to aspire to instead of being a whore with a harder bar for entry than females, is foolish.
A high class whore is still a whore. Male whores are still degenerates.
I could have told them all this shit for free but it's good there's a real legitimate study being done on incels that isn't just Canadian glowies and the ADL sperging out to the FBI.
A recent prominent study by the University of Swansea on Incels has been funded by the UK Government's Commission for Countering Extremism (CCE). The CCE commissions research that then feeds back their findings to the Government to inform legislation and strategy.
Bear in mind that Incels were identified as a target for the UK's CONTEST 2023 counter-terrorism strategy.
The Black Pill. That is probably my biggest disagreement with the "incel community". Most of these guys aren't that ugly, they're just socially awkward & lack charisma at the bare minimum, also some may be lacking in the money department to even do a cheap first date.
Society will tell you "women are equal to men" but if you're a man having trouble geting dates, they will tell you "you need to learn to talk to women" as if women are different than men, society is only right on the 2nd part because they're wrong on the 1st part.
Saying the right things, the right way (with confidence & no social awkwardness) wows a woman. A woman needs to be wow'd to even want to give an above average guy a chance, much less an average guy or below average guy. Women aren't as visual as men, and will generally only note a guy's looks on the extreme ends of handsome & ugly. By extreme end of ugly, I mean has a birth defect or was in a major accident, not just "really ugly".
And for all the "tolerance" they preach, when it comes down to it, they sure aren't very tolerant to men who have social anxiety, autism, etc.
The thing that makes them truly an incel, is the psychologically poisoned response of defeatism and resentment where they've stewed in their madness so thoroughly that they can't even be asked to try to improve themselves. That's what actually makes them so toxic. I can't tolerate someone who is dedicated to destroying themselves and taking others with them.
I've even gone on here to explain that the mentality of "no man below a 4 is capable of being in a relationship with a woman, even with a six figure salary" is both reductive, not based in evidence, and simple defeatism. My normal citation is that I have a married friend who is a 1 and he married a 1. That's entirely normal. People actually pair bond to similar attractiveness. There's a lot more women who are getting run through, and some that are taking i polygyny; but your average unattractive woman doesn't have more than a couple sexual partners a year, if that. It's true, they just don't want to get it.
There will always be a small minority of men and an significantly lower minority of women who will be single and childless through their lives. If I recall from a Norwegian study, around 25% of men are childless at 40 compared to 15% of women. Was the case prior to the Internet and will be the case forever more. These people are simply not capable of finding partners, a significant proportion of which is genetic or medical and can't be fixed by telling them to "lift" or "touch grass". The only difference now is that prior to the Internet, these people would keep themselves to themselves at home and would not communicate with other like minded people, which they can now do online and worldwide, that equates to many millions of people.
I disagree.
First I think those numbers are way to high. 25% of men being childless doesn't sound like it would fit in any environment except the modern one. That is an extreme number, and normally, it would lead to massive population loss. The real numbers are probably both well below 10%. In earlier epochs, being childless was genuinely abnormal and rare. Even the Boomers would have told you that number was high. This is why when we see stats from Japan saying 40% of men under 35 haven't had a sexual partner is catastrophic. That is an extreme aberration that is not replicated at any other point in human history. Same with the suicide rate among young adults. It's telling when a modern western man meets with an isolated tribal people, and that those people have almost never heard of suicide, and find it unfathomable.
Second, most of these people who were childless did not just isolate themselves at home, that is a also sickness of post-modernity. (Not even modernity was that bad).
Many of those childless people would have been productive members of society in one way or another: men who worked remote and on the fringes of society who could not settle down due to the work: like pioneers, explorers, sailing merchants, etc. Many of them would have been deeply involved in other work that would be otherwise relatively self-isolating, but community supporting: monks, priests, craftsmen, fishermen, truckers, etc. Except for the monks, prostitutes actually had a moderately wholesome role of being a kind of mimic to those more isolated men who couldn't settle down and raise a family due to the circumstances of their work. I remember an NPR documentary covering over a strip-club that was in a pretty remote part of Minnesota. Most of the clientele were truckers who were older and quite well behaved. This includes more than one of them dropping off a full turkey... to the strip club. It was an attempt to mimic something akin to a family due to circumstances. They would not have been "incels", or even really sexless at all.
This is a far more serious pathology of the modern era.
There's a video yesterday by Wheat Waffles who is one of the prominent voices around the black pill (spoiler alert - the black pill is more aligned to what evolutionary psychologists are finding about human nature because mating and nature is brutal and doesn't care about your feelings) where he provides a paid service rating men's looks with university students.
One of his conclusions was that women will reject you for one fundamental flaw as opposed to doing a cost/benefit analysis to see if you would be a net positive or negative. Which makes sense as women (even older, unattractive women) have lots of options and the majority of men have little to none.
One of his other conclusion is that if you're average looking (not that ugly) or below, he may as well have rated them as zero. The women he asked wanted nothing to do with these men and subsequently that equates to zero, rather than the 1-9 scale he used.
Actual incels have self defeating responses to their issues, and I don't think that should be defended. Still, I have way more respect for them than I do the male feminists. The latter aren't any more sexually successful than the former, but at least the former know that something is fucked up.
People think that the solution is to tell them to "lift" and "touch grass". But how does that make them get to six feet in height or cure their autism or solve their speech impediment, fix their balding or deal with half their personality traits that are genetic and inherited?
This advice is like telling someone with a 1970s hatchback that if they just try hard and believe, they can turn that car into a 2023 sports car. You can tweak that car, improve its performance or even put a sports car manufacturers badge on it to delude yourself but you're not fooling anyone. It's still a 1970s hatchback underneath that veneer and always will be. In the same way, you can call yourself a woman but you'll always have XY chromosomes and will never produce large gametes (eggs) but only small gametes (sperm).
Life is inherently unfair and everyone has a different pack of cards when they are born. Incels were given the jokers in the real world game of poker. That's not defeatist or negative, that's reality regrettably. Stardusk The Thinking Ape described it aptly - life is cope.
Pursuing superficial women for superficial relationships is where all that comes into play. Being obsessed with being a degenerate, as if the "chads" are somehow something to aspire to instead of being a whore with a harder bar for entry than females, is foolish.
A high class whore is still a whore. Male whores are still degenerates.
A recent prominent study by the University of Swansea on Incels has been funded by the UK Government's Commission for Countering Extremism (CCE). The CCE commissions research that then feeds back their findings to the Government to inform legislation and strategy.
Bear in mind that Incels were identified as a target for the UK's CONTEST 2023 counter-terrorism strategy.
https://psy.swansea.ac.uk/suric/