I suspect the "panty raid" itself is just a strawman. That kind of shit wouldn't fly in college when I was there and I've never met anyone who either participated in one or was victimized by it.
Like it was depicted in some teen comedy college movies and suddenly gained a reputation for being real, like color-coded slap bracelet sex parties and other urban legends.
It is one of those things that people talk about but I've never actually heard someone say firsthand they did. Probably happened a few times in the early days of women going to men's colleges (I mean like 100 years ago) and got overblown by comedies, after which real students reenacted exactly what they saw in the movie.
Does anyone else remember the men's locker room trope? This is something that specifically gets pushed by white western women but in reality if you guys had ever been in a male locker room you'd know that if everyone's done a workout or training session you just want to get fucking changed and go home lol. There really is none of this borderline gay shit or chatting about women behind their backs that women claim we do. Methinks that's some major projection on their part because we all know women are the biggest gossip merchants.
Even when they did happen, it was fraternity/sorority shenanigans. Unless your field needs those connections, just don't become a frat boy/sorority girl. Or do, it's not risking lasting harm like walking alone drunk at 03:00 in nightclub clothes.
I see hazing as better, assuming we're not talking about the extreme "you could actually die doing this" hazing that probably wasn't as common as the media likes to pretend. A hazing ritual is sort of like a test of bravery and group loyalty, and both of those things are important masculine traits. Ergo, to join a fraternity or other male club, hazing is appropriate—or at least defensible—as long as you don't go overboard. I don't think it's coincidental that we have so many soyboys after spending decades systematically removing all sorts of tests of traditional masculinity in the guise of safety or inclusion.
Panty raids, on the other hand, earn my objection on a public degeneracy level. I'm not going to go around saying "this is rape and sexual assault" like a shrieking feminist detractor Obviously if the women are really resisting it or upset by it it's bad, but my guess is that in any cases where panty raids actually happened, the female "victims" were less than completely upset by the action. My issue is less on the "all women are poor defenseless waifs" level and more on the "ritualizing the theft of underwear is formalization of perversion, regardless of the victim and the offender's sex."
I don't really see either as monstrous, but if I had to pick one I'm more willing to defend, hazing is definitely the winner.
To be fair, there’s no moral perspective from which to argue in favor of panty raids.
I suspect the "panty raid" itself is just a strawman. That kind of shit wouldn't fly in college when I was there and I've never met anyone who either participated in one or was victimized by it.
Like it was depicted in some teen comedy college movies and suddenly gained a reputation for being real, like color-coded slap bracelet sex parties and other urban legends.
It is one of those things that people talk about but I've never actually heard someone say firsthand they did. Probably happened a few times in the early days of women going to men's colleges (I mean like 100 years ago) and got overblown by comedies, after which real students reenacted exactly what they saw in the movie.
Does anyone else remember the men's locker room trope? This is something that specifically gets pushed by white western women but in reality if you guys had ever been in a male locker room you'd know that if everyone's done a workout or training session you just want to get fucking changed and go home lol. There really is none of this borderline gay shit or chatting about women behind their backs that women claim we do. Methinks that's some major projection on their part because we all know women are the biggest gossip merchants.
It definitely did happen. Just decades before your (or indeed my) experience…
Perhaps not like in the movies, sure, but that doesn’t mean they did not happen…
Even when they did happen, it was fraternity/sorority shenanigans. Unless your field needs those connections, just don't become a frat boy/sorority girl. Or do, it's not risking lasting harm like walking alone drunk at 03:00 in nightclub clothes.
Eh, I think there’s a lot worse things to happen at college, such as hazing…
I really don’t see panty raids as that terrible, for the most part. Pretty harmless in most (though not all) cases.
So… Not sure I fully agree, tbh.
I’m not arguing it was some “moral good”, but I also entirely disagree that they were some terrible thing, as this article is making out.
Let (college age) kids be kids, tbh. 🤷🏻♂️
I see hazing as better, assuming we're not talking about the extreme "you could actually die doing this" hazing that probably wasn't as common as the media likes to pretend. A hazing ritual is sort of like a test of bravery and group loyalty, and both of those things are important masculine traits. Ergo, to join a fraternity or other male club, hazing is appropriate—or at least defensible—as long as you don't go overboard. I don't think it's coincidental that we have so many soyboys after spending decades systematically removing all sorts of tests of traditional masculinity in the guise of safety or inclusion.
Panty raids, on the other hand, earn my objection on a public degeneracy level. I'm not going to go around saying "this is rape and sexual assault" like a shrieking feminist detractor Obviously if the women are really resisting it or upset by it it's bad, but my guess is that in any cases where panty raids actually happened, the female "victims" were less than completely upset by the action. My issue is less on the "all women are poor defenseless waifs" level and more on the "ritualizing the theft of underwear is formalization of perversion, regardless of the victim and the offender's sex."
I don't really see either as monstrous, but if I had to pick one I'm more willing to defend, hazing is definitely the winner.