Well Tolkien did say he meant his stories to be a sort of prehistory of the real world, but I don't think he ever asserted that anything he wrote actually happened.
Middle Earth was intended as a mythology for the English people, so there will be stories and places that we see connected to the real world and make us imagine how things might have come to be.
There is a deeper understanding to the idea, middle earth is different enough that Tolkien brought in known historical subjects to help understand things. Frodo is old English for smart one, but that's not his actual name. Tolkien used Frodo to explain him, and his name, which is in a completely different language.
I thought this was common understanding ... that it was pretty obvious it was meant to be a fictional history of the world "before the Egyptians/Sumerians" type of deal. The elves left, the hobbits died off, and all that's left are Men who backslid to cavepeople and had to work their asses back up alone. Or something along those lines.
Earthdawn had a similar concept ( there's a magical field that waxes and wanes, and when it's at its strongest, the world is a nightmare shithole of reality-bending Horrors, best left forgotten, but causing civilization to reset in the aftermath. And then Shadowrun happens when the field starts up again in the modern age (I think the first elves and orcs are supposed to have been born in the 2000s, originally.)
OK, I knew something was owned by a dragon, lol. Was just kind of wondering what they cut out after the two worlds were ... separated ... from one another. I know the three weirdest species of Earthdawn never did exist in Shadowrun, simply because they hadn't shown up yet (not enough magic to produce people like Windlings, T'Skrang, or Obsidimen.)
yah! Didn't humanity (or whatever, sentient races) have to go to ground / sleep during the shithole years in Earthdawn? Like massive underground civilizations to wait out the demons? I don't remember much from playing that in the 90's, but I do remember my fighter gliding around like he had rollerblades (but magic or skill or something) in fights.
Massive underground cities, yes. Our GM put us further in the past than the book suggests; we were one of the forward parties from a major underground settlement looking to see if anyone else opened their doors yet; he ran it as kind of a creepy-as-shit horror game.
The magic was way OP, the Step system of scaling was nuts. But at least it did come with a Strain mechanic.
Middle-earth is literally the translation of Midgard, or Middangeard. It is a place, and we call that place Earth, now.
During the lecture, Victorian literature professor John Holmes, alongside archeologists Rebecca Wragg Sykes and Tom Higham, debated how the various races of Middle-Earth — men, elves, dwarves, orcs, and hobbits — could be taken as analogies for the various hominin species that once coexisted on Earth.
Different regions in Middle-Earth > correspond to distinct periods of English history.
No. No, No. No, they don't. Just...no. Do these people read the novel? Or the foreword, even?
Tolkien didn't do that.
“I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history – true or feigned– with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.”
― Oxford Professor J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring
Might as well make a book about four kids and a lion and turn him into "literally Jesus in lion form".
Oh wait. He absolutely despised that when his friend did it and they had a falling out over it...
"...could be taken as analogies for the various hominin species that once coexisted on Earth."
Joggers are not from England. Even when their veiled presence is detected in a conversation or article, they don't actually have to be mentioned. Current year boffins are infuriating. The dogwhistle in this case is "coexisted". So predictable.
Well, they don't get Bombadil, either, (and Tom is not incomprehensible if you know the lore and the making of Tolkien's works), so what else should we expect?
"Who are you Master" he asked.
"Eh, what?" said Tom sitting up, and his eyes glinted in the gloom. "Don't you know my name yet? That's the only answer. Tell me, who are you, along, yourself and nameless? **But you are young and I am old**. Eldest, that's what I am. Mark my words, my friends. **Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn. He made the paths before the Big People, and saw the little People arriving.** He was here before the kings and the graves and the Barrow-wrights. When the Elves passed westward, Tom was here already, before the seas were bent. He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless--before the Dark Lord came from Outside"
The original version of Tolkien's poem "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil" was published in 1934 in The Oxford Magazine.
The Lord of the Rings is an epic high-fantasy novel by J.R.R. Tolkien. Set in Middle-earth, the story began as a sequel to Tolkien's earlier work, The Hobbit, but eventually developed into a much larger work. The writing began in 1937, and was published in three volumes in 1954 and 1955.
Tom is literally the Eldest [Tolkien character], because Tolkien wrote of Tom first.
You can tell how jaded someone is by their feelings regarding the importance of Tom Bombadil's inclusion in Tolkien's works.
Tom is the professor's 'Pooh Bear' to Michael Tolkien's 'Christopher Robin'.
Academia's appreciation is charming and the Professor enjoyed interest in his work; but honestly, they're stories meant to entertain you, and your (and Tolkien's) family, not something to obsess over and miss the forest for the trees. The Prof. was embarrassed by the "fandom" stuff, too.
Sometimes, the author didn't make the curtains in the protagonist's library blue because they're depressed -- the curtains are just frigging blue. I know it's an improbable notion to the degenerate fiends who make dreck like "Velma", but it's true.
Well Tolkien did say he meant his stories to be a sort of prehistory of the real world, but I don't think he ever asserted that anything he wrote actually happened.
Middle Earth was intended as a mythology for the English people, so there will be stories and places that we see connected to the real world and make us imagine how things might have come to be.
That's going to be on my list article, so thanks.
There is a deeper understanding to the idea, middle earth is different enough that Tolkien brought in known historical subjects to help understand things. Frodo is old English for smart one, but that's not his actual name. Tolkien used Frodo to explain him, and his name, which is in a completely different language.
I thought this was common understanding ... that it was pretty obvious it was meant to be a fictional history of the world "before the Egyptians/Sumerians" type of deal. The elves left, the hobbits died off, and all that's left are Men who backslid to cavepeople and had to work their asses back up alone. Or something along those lines.
Earthdawn had a similar concept ( there's a magical field that waxes and wanes, and when it's at its strongest, the world is a nightmare shithole of reality-bending Horrors, best left forgotten, but causing civilization to reset in the aftermath. And then Shadowrun happens when the field starts up again in the modern age (I think the first elves and orcs are supposed to have been born in the 2000s, originally.)
Yep. Nowadays, that game (Shadowrun) is used to push socialism and antifa-style anarchy
A lot of concepts in Werewolf: the Apocalypse got misunderstood and abused, too.
Does modern Shaowrun still have Mexico as some big corporate entity owned by a Dragon?
The main corp owned by a dragon (Lofwyr) is Saeder-Krupp in Germany. Mexico is still Aztlan, and it is owned by Aztechnology
OK, I knew something was owned by a dragon, lol. Was just kind of wondering what they cut out after the two worlds were ... separated ... from one another. I know the three weirdest species of Earthdawn never did exist in Shadowrun, simply because they hadn't shown up yet (not enough magic to produce people like Windlings, T'Skrang, or Obsidimen.)
yah! Didn't humanity (or whatever, sentient races) have to go to ground / sleep during the shithole years in Earthdawn? Like massive underground civilizations to wait out the demons? I don't remember much from playing that in the 90's, but I do remember my fighter gliding around like he had rollerblades (but magic or skill or something) in fights.
Massive underground cities, yes. Our GM put us further in the past than the book suggests; we were one of the forward parties from a major underground settlement looking to see if anyone else opened their doors yet; he ran it as kind of a creepy-as-shit horror game.
The magic was way OP, the Step system of scaling was nuts. But at least it did come with a Strain mechanic.
Middle-earth is literally the translation of Midgard, or Middangeard. It is a place, and we call that place Earth, now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ
No. No, No. No, they don't. Just...no. Do these people read the novel? Or the foreword, even?
Tolkien didn't do that.
― Oxford Professor J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring
Might as well make a book about four kids and a lion and turn him into "literally Jesus in lion form".
Oh wait. He absolutely despised that when his friend did it and they had a falling out over it...
Joggers are not from England. Even when their veiled presence is detected in a conversation or article, they don't actually have to be mentioned. Current year boffins are infuriating. The dogwhistle in this case is "coexisted". So predictable.
Well, they don't get Bombadil, either, (and Tom is not incomprehensible if you know the lore and the making of Tolkien's works), so what else should we expect?
Tom is literally the Eldest [Tolkien character], because Tolkien wrote of Tom first.
You can tell how jaded someone is by their feelings regarding the importance of Tom Bombadil's inclusion in Tolkien's works.
Tom is the professor's 'Pooh Bear' to Michael Tolkien's 'Christopher Robin'.
Academia's appreciation is charming and the Professor enjoyed interest in his work; but honestly, they're stories meant to entertain you, and your (and Tolkien's) family, not something to obsess over and miss the forest for the trees. The Prof. was embarrassed by the "fandom" stuff, too.
Sometimes, the author didn't make the curtains in the protagonist's library blue because they're depressed -- the curtains are just frigging blue. I know it's an improbable notion to the degenerate fiends who make dreck like "Velma", but it's true.