I have noticed this line of accusation toward the Ukrainians where they assume everything is about making bad press for the Russians. The most cited instance I have seen being that "The only reason the Ukrainians would arm the citizens of Kiev is to get dead civilians for the press." Which doesnt make sense to me for several reasons.
God forbid the people stand up for their homes, and at least die screaming so that Putin cant get the easy win. And it has been extremely weird to me to see hardcore ethno-nat types going all rootless cosmopolitan when it comes to Ukraine ("just surrender and stop fighting, and if you dont like the Russians just leave")
This ignores that there is a well established tradition in history of the citizens taking up any and every arm available to them when their home is threatened, and fighting like men possessed to do it. Probably one of the most famous examples being the 1648 Battle of Prague, where the people of Prague decided to fight back against the Swedish Army, even though this was at the height of Swedish power and that the army included the elite Carolean shock troops. And through nothing but guts, balls, and sheer raw determination, they managed to hold the line until a true force could end the fight.
While I am sure some were forced into it, it seems like the overwhelming majority of citizens are taking up the fight willingly, and will use outdated AK's and molotov cocktails if that is what it takes to keep their land.
And I would argue that the reason that Putin has been so slow compared to what everyone expected is because he thought he would just walk in, and didnt expect civilians to be hounding his troops everywhere they go once they got out of Donbas. Which is why you continue to see absolute rando's yoinking Russian military equipment.
This ignores that there is a well established tradition in history of the citizens taking up any and every arm available to them when their home is threatened
While I am sure some were forced into it, it seems like the overwhelming majority of citizens are taking up the fight willingly
Ok, I feel you're missing the bigger picture here with your 3 points :
People are being armed by the Government. This isn't citizens using their own arms to defend their homes.
Usually, Citizens defending home and hearth is the LAST LINE of defense. Not the first. This conflict is like 3 days old now, and already, citizens are being armed and told to go fight, with little organisation or training. Where's the Ukrainian defense forces ?
You can't claim this is them taking it willingly when they're being told how evil the Russians are and how fighting them will save their country. They're being propagandized into fighting, and propaganda is a form of at least deceptive coercion.
Well, yeah. But when its all you have, you use what you got. Its absolutely not optimal, and it shows the advantages of the US 2nd Amendment (since everyone is already trained with their guns before the shooting starts). But when you are in an existential threat situation, you make do with anything you have.
"Where's the Ukrainian defense forces ?" From the sound of it, they are locked down in the East and South, and those that arent are doing sneaky beaky shit and raiding Russian convoys and reinforcement columns. So there arent really a lot to lock down Kiev, which is where the militia comes in. It is the last line of defense, because THEY ARE IN "last line of defense" mode.
What are you on about? The Kievan has hated the Muscovite for centuries. They hated each other in Medieval times. They hated each other when they were joined by force under the Russian Empire. The Soviets committed a genocide against them. I can assure you, there was no need for propaganda, the rage is quite genuine. Just because Vladimir wants to pretend that "Ukraine" is a myth doesnt make it so. And its why you are seeing such intense resistance in the face of long odd.
Ukraine has a huge mobilization reserve that it needs a few weeks to train and employ. Somewhere north of an additional 150,000 to 200,000 troops. Not unlike if Israel employed General Mobilization.
That's why they are going with full mobilization right now. There's no time to lose, and wasting time semi-mobilizing when you got caught having already only partly mobilized when Belarus invaded... means you need to take back the initiative. Ukraine and Russia are in a precarious situation right now. Russia now needs time to fully deploy all available forces to start taking towns. If they don't properly encircle Ukranian cities, the Ukranian forces could successfully break out. The longer this goes on, the more Ukranian reinforcements are going to arrive as a fucking horde. But if Ukranian forces in the east just stall instead of surrender, that manpower advantage is going to be a huge problem for the Russians trying to avoid inflicting major casualties. However, it's quite likely that if this war does go on longer, Ukraine still loses as the Russians deploy more standard and violent tactics.
It's good that Zelinski signaled he could make a deal (despite the State Department's ridiculous statements), the war being short actually benefits Russia and Ukraine, but neither want to come off looking weak. Neither want the devastation a long war would entail. The only people who benefit from that are the Chinese and Fabians.
And it has been extremely weird to me to see hardcore ethno-nat types going all rootless cosmopolitan when it comes to Ukraine ("just surrender and stop fighting, and if you dont like the Russians just leave")
Dude, the NatSoc's brains are broken by this war. Russia's the "good guy", even though Putin's literally pledging to exterminate Ukranian National Socialists, even though the UNS's are supported by a "Zionist Occupied Government" of Ukraine because Zelinski is a jew, supported by a jewish oligarch, and the 2014 revolution involved Soros, therefore Israel is supporting UNS's... even though Israel has officially refused to condemn the Russian invasion.
I don't think they can see outside the American racial constructs at this point. I don't think they get that UNS's are nationalistic for Ukrainans, not Russians. They aren't Capital W "White" collectivists. They are Ukranian Collectivists.
I'm actually starting to wonder if they are broken because they are being fed controlled opposition narratives from Feds.
Which is why you continue to see absolute rando's yoinking Russian military equipment.
I don't know how much of it is true, but I agree that Russia may have underestimated the support against them for an invasion. Zelinski isn't necessarily popular (as he previously was), but that doesn't mean that western Ukrainians would tolerate a Russian-Belarusian invasion force.
That last part, the fact that Belarus just said "fuck it we're coming to" has got to have pissed some Ukranians off.
I have noticed this line of accusation toward the Ukrainians where they assume everything is about making bad press for the Russians. The most cited instance I have seen being that "The only reason the Ukrainians would arm the citizens of Kiev is to get dead civilians for the press." Which doesnt make sense to me for several reasons.
God forbid the people stand up for their homes, and at least die screaming so that Putin cant get the easy win. And it has been extremely weird to me to see hardcore ethno-nat types going all rootless cosmopolitan when it comes to Ukraine ("just surrender and stop fighting, and if you dont like the Russians just leave")
This ignores that there is a well established tradition in history of the citizens taking up any and every arm available to them when their home is threatened, and fighting like men possessed to do it. Probably one of the most famous examples being the 1648 Battle of Prague, where the people of Prague decided to fight back against the Swedish Army, even though this was at the height of Swedish power and that the army included the elite Carolean shock troops. And through nothing but guts, balls, and sheer raw determination, they managed to hold the line until a true force could end the fight.
While I am sure some were forced into it, it seems like the overwhelming majority of citizens are taking up the fight willingly, and will use outdated AK's and molotov cocktails if that is what it takes to keep their land.
And I would argue that the reason that Putin has been so slow compared to what everyone expected is because he thought he would just walk in, and didnt expect civilians to be hounding his troops everywhere they go once they got out of Donbas. Which is why you continue to see absolute rando's yoinking Russian military equipment.
Ok, I feel you're missing the bigger picture here with your 3 points :
People are being armed by the Government. This isn't citizens using their own arms to defend their homes.
Usually, Citizens defending home and hearth is the LAST LINE of defense. Not the first. This conflict is like 3 days old now, and already, citizens are being armed and told to go fight, with little organisation or training. Where's the Ukrainian defense forces ?
You can't claim this is them taking it willingly when they're being told how evil the Russians are and how fighting them will save their country. They're being propagandized into fighting, and propaganda is a form of at least deceptive coercion.
Well, yeah. But when its all you have, you use what you got. Its absolutely not optimal, and it shows the advantages of the US 2nd Amendment (since everyone is already trained with their guns before the shooting starts). But when you are in an existential threat situation, you make do with anything you have.
"Where's the Ukrainian defense forces ?" From the sound of it, they are locked down in the East and South, and those that arent are doing sneaky beaky shit and raiding Russian convoys and reinforcement columns. So there arent really a lot to lock down Kiev, which is where the militia comes in. It is the last line of defense, because THEY ARE IN "last line of defense" mode.
What are you on about? The Kievan has hated the Muscovite for centuries. They hated each other in Medieval times. They hated each other when they were joined by force under the Russian Empire. The Soviets committed a genocide against them. I can assure you, there was no need for propaganda, the rage is quite genuine. Just because Vladimir wants to pretend that "Ukraine" is a myth doesnt make it so. And its why you are seeing such intense resistance in the face of long odd.
Ukraine has a huge mobilization reserve that it needs a few weeks to train and employ. Somewhere north of an additional 150,000 to 200,000 troops. Not unlike if Israel employed General Mobilization.
That's why they are going with full mobilization right now. There's no time to lose, and wasting time semi-mobilizing when you got caught having already only partly mobilized when Belarus invaded... means you need to take back the initiative. Ukraine and Russia are in a precarious situation right now. Russia now needs time to fully deploy all available forces to start taking towns. If they don't properly encircle Ukranian cities, the Ukranian forces could successfully break out. The longer this goes on, the more Ukranian reinforcements are going to arrive as a fucking horde. But if Ukranian forces in the east just stall instead of surrender, that manpower advantage is going to be a huge problem for the Russians trying to avoid inflicting major casualties. However, it's quite likely that if this war does go on longer, Ukraine still loses as the Russians deploy more standard and violent tactics.
It's good that Zelinski signaled he could make a deal (despite the State Department's ridiculous statements), the war being short actually benefits Russia and Ukraine, but neither want to come off looking weak. Neither want the devastation a long war would entail. The only people who benefit from that are the Chinese and Fabians.
Dude, the NatSoc's brains are broken by this war. Russia's the "good guy", even though Putin's literally pledging to exterminate Ukranian National Socialists, even though the UNS's are supported by a "Zionist Occupied Government" of Ukraine because Zelinski is a jew, supported by a jewish oligarch, and the 2014 revolution involved Soros, therefore Israel is supporting UNS's... even though Israel has officially refused to condemn the Russian invasion.
I don't think they can see outside the American racial constructs at this point. I don't think they get that UNS's are nationalistic for Ukrainans, not Russians. They aren't Capital W "White" collectivists. They are Ukranian Collectivists.
I'm actually starting to wonder if they are broken because they are being fed controlled opposition narratives from Feds.
I don't know how much of it is true, but I agree that Russia may have underestimated the support against them for an invasion. Zelinski isn't necessarily popular (as he previously was), but that doesn't mean that western Ukrainians would tolerate a Russian-Belarusian invasion force.
That last part, the fact that Belarus just said "fuck it we're coming to" has got to have pissed some Ukranians off.