I wanted to respond to the quote here. Mods on .win don't create the ... anything. YOU do! Mods simply keep things within bounds that YOU choose. It's impossible to create rules that cover everything. Judgment will always be required. We should be periodically asking what priorities, criteria, etc people want.
Implementing that is a compromise, meaning nobody ever gets what they want. Part of making this work is making mod logs public so people can see if one mod is off base. All (or at least most) mods should be replaced periodically to avoid burnout and increase participation, IMHO.
Mods can steer a .win down the middle of its stated purpose by stickying posts. Hopefully that's the biggest part of the duty and there aren't many reports.
This is an impromptu representation of the attitude .win mods should have. It's 180 degrees opposite from your quote, which sounds like Reddit
I know nothing about KIA or gaming .wins. Maybe you can take something here and inject it into the community and do some good? Also, modmail. I really don't understand how trust even enters into it except:.
doxxing. Actual, identify you IRL lose your job burn down your house doxxing, not the vague use of it I have seen from some mods.
stealing your work. I think the user agreement says anything you submit becomes property of .win or something like that but if you were presenting code and somebody took credit for your work and took your job yeah that would suck.
Yes the quote is a copy pasta from reddit describing mockingly the behavior of a moderator views, I used it to further illustrate the point in which Perun and your defense of his action is seen from my perspective.
Modmail and trust? The only part of modmail (clarification of what I mean is modmail, Incase there is a misunderstanding, with modmail I mean message the moderators function) is that it is anonymous of whom answer and since it goes to all on the list, who knows how it is handled, Thus I cannot know if it is deleted or replied and then forgotten.
But my point about trust is that the system you explain here:
Implementing that is a compromise, meaning nobody ever gets what they want. Part of making this work is making mod logs public so people can see if one mod is off base. All (or at least most) mods should be replaced periodically to avoid burnout and increase participation, IMHO.
Mods can steer a .win down the middle of its stated purpose by stickying posts. Hopefully that's the biggest part of the duty and there aren't many reports>
How can that work when we have a known "super mod" which overrules arbitrarily?
The very method this setup entails means that the super mod and above people need to be quite detached from the handling of community themselves otherwise you have a centralized structure that will be corrupted and the system in which you propose I can only see flourish while the illusion of the super admins detachment to individual community is kept.
The poor handling of the shitstorm and the later method of trying to just remove everything quietly under the rug? (At least it seems to be that sort of panic response) And when trying to point it out to other mods or admin, I either get nonchalant answer or the void. This shatters the illusion for me, have not kept a record of the value nor data so do not know how many other it affected and knowing reddit, you could probably keep doing this a lot more times before the illusion has faded.
I know nothing about KIA or gaming .wins. Maybe you can take something here and inject it into the community and do some good?
And don't worry, I told you trust is nil, I will not return to gaming nor any of the other wins. I will remain here until this inevitably get shutdown aswell.
How can that work when we have a known "super mod" which overrules arbitrarily?
Very fair point! Has Perun taken the reins of gaming other than this really strange 3 day spell?
Modmail does go to the whole group of that specific .win, but it getting deleted later shouldn't be a problem unless it's just ignored. Mods can't delete modmail btw, afaIk it exists forever. I'd hope there's some automatic purge function but I haven't seen evidence of that.
otherwise you have a centralized structure that will be corrupted
This is where knowing the history and creation of .win becomes important. You can read it. Our current "top dog" is legendary; for vision, faithfulness to it, and dev ability. If there's a cause for concern it's the project getting too big for him, burnout, and others involved being jerks. I have not seen or heard anything negative out of Perun other than my interaction with you. I'm not saying you're wrong but you haven't given me anything specific other than 3 days that were really strange by all accounts.
That truly was a panic situation. Personally, I think it was a mistake to bring at least 2 groups here, IP2 (the one that caused the shitstorm) being the worst. That's hindsight. I know why they were brought over and the intentions were good.
I still don't see how any of this impacts you now other than burnout from past Reddit experience?
Unfortunately I have not kept up to date with any action of perun since those 3 days, so I cannot inform you weather this is a normal pattern of behavior or not but the lack of clarification from c and the rest of the mods and the lack of reinstating removed post and topics (which could be used as indirect response) which were not spammed by user (thus ensuring that topic thread could be used for containment and somewhat easier handling) is what all is based on. That and the passage of time.
have asked C himself for clarification, that was months ago. My Message to this day remains deleted in the win.gaming where I ask for a official statement regarding peruns fuckup
Expecting to get a response from C is not reasonable. Again, he basically does everything to run this site as a dev.
It's generally considered poor form to criticize mod action in any forum. That's what modmail is for. It works a lot better if first mention is there, respectful, and succinct.
What am I supposed to see in that link if your comments is deleted?
So you have public mod logs, but are worried Perun messes about maliciously at will? Please help me understand
This seems to be the best comment in the linked thread:
Why are these retards even allowed on the website in the first place? Why are they being sent to other boards when they have their own board? Just tell them to fuck off to 4chan and be done with it.
I agree.
Other than that, calling to fire Perun makes no sense. He isn't paid. You don't know if the site owner decided to let IP2 loose in gaming but everybody blamed Perun for it. You don't know if Perun cleaned everything up using access to the C account
This amounts to IP2 being a constant problem across .win. They describe themselves as drunk 14 year olds. It affected gaming for 3 days. 3 months ago.
I wanted to respond to the quote here. Mods on .win don't create the ... anything. YOU do! Mods simply keep things within bounds that YOU choose. It's impossible to create rules that cover everything. Judgment will always be required. We should be periodically asking what priorities, criteria, etc people want.
Implementing that is a compromise, meaning nobody ever gets what they want. Part of making this work is making mod logs public so people can see if one mod is off base. All (or at least most) mods should be replaced periodically to avoid burnout and increase participation, IMHO.
Mods can steer a .win down the middle of its stated purpose by stickying posts. Hopefully that's the biggest part of the duty and there aren't many reports.
This is an impromptu representation of the attitude .win mods should have. It's 180 degrees opposite from your quote, which sounds like Reddit
I know nothing about KIA or gaming .wins. Maybe you can take something here and inject it into the community and do some good? Also, modmail. I really don't understand how trust even enters into it except:.
doxxing. Actual, identify you IRL lose your job burn down your house doxxing, not the vague use of it I have seen from some mods.
stealing your work. I think the user agreement says anything you submit becomes property of .win or something like that but if you were presenting code and somebody took credit for your work and took your job yeah that would suck.
Yes the quote is a copy pasta from reddit describing mockingly the behavior of a moderator views, I used it to further illustrate the point in which Perun and your defense of his action is seen from my perspective.
Modmail and trust? The only part of modmail (clarification of what I mean is modmail, Incase there is a misunderstanding, with modmail I mean message the moderators function) is that it is anonymous of whom answer and since it goes to all on the list, who knows how it is handled, Thus I cannot know if it is deleted or replied and then forgotten.
But my point about trust is that the system you explain here:
How can that work when we have a known "super mod" which overrules arbitrarily? The very method this setup entails means that the super mod and above people need to be quite detached from the handling of community themselves otherwise you have a centralized structure that will be corrupted and the system in which you propose I can only see flourish while the illusion of the super admins detachment to individual community is kept.
The poor handling of the shitstorm and the later method of trying to just remove everything quietly under the rug? (At least it seems to be that sort of panic response) And when trying to point it out to other mods or admin, I either get nonchalant answer or the void. This shatters the illusion for me, have not kept a record of the value nor data so do not know how many other it affected and knowing reddit, you could probably keep doing this a lot more times before the illusion has faded.
And don't worry, I told you trust is nil, I will not return to gaming nor any of the other wins. I will remain here until this inevitably get shutdown aswell.
Very fair point! Has Perun taken the reins of gaming other than this really strange 3 day spell?
Modmail does go to the whole group of that specific .win, but it getting deleted later shouldn't be a problem unless it's just ignored. Mods can't delete modmail btw, afaIk it exists forever. I'd hope there's some automatic purge function but I haven't seen evidence of that.
This is where knowing the history and creation of .win becomes important. You can read it. Our current "top dog" is legendary; for vision, faithfulness to it, and dev ability. If there's a cause for concern it's the project getting too big for him, burnout, and others involved being jerks. I have not seen or heard anything negative out of Perun other than my interaction with you. I'm not saying you're wrong but you haven't given me anything specific other than 3 days that were really strange by all accounts.
That truly was a panic situation. Personally, I think it was a mistake to bring at least 2 groups here, IP2 (the one that caused the shitstorm) being the worst. That's hindsight. I know why they were brought over and the intentions were good.
I still don't see how any of this impacts you now other than burnout from past Reddit experience?
https://www.google.com/search?q=lyrics+to+Suspicious+minds&oq=lyrics+to+Suspicious+minds&aqs=chrome..69i57.17909j0j4&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
Never had an account on Reddit.
I have asked C himself for clarification, that was months ago. My Message to this day remains deleted in the win.gaming where I ask for a official statement regarding peruns fuckup (https://communities.win/c/Gaming/p/12jJdvfYnd/this-community-is-for-gaming/c)(https://communities.win/c/Gaming/logs?page=14).
Mod mail regarding the removal and lack of response have not been answered.
I also asked him(C) later in meta, an other domain of Perun, where he likes to remove calls of his dismissal of position. (https://communities.win/c/Meta/p/12jJdxvWtT/x/c)(https://communities.win/c/Meta/logs?page=13), All of these post are also archived in order to ensure that if further stuff occurs it will be harder to forget.
Unfortunately I have not kept up to date with any action of perun since those 3 days, so I cannot inform you weather this is a normal pattern of behavior or not but the lack of clarification from c and the rest of the mods and the lack of reinstating removed post and topics (which could be used as indirect response) which were not spammed by user (thus ensuring that topic thread could be used for containment and somewhat easier handling) is what all is based on. That and the passage of time.
Expecting to get a response from C is not reasonable. Again, he basically does everything to run this site as a dev.
It's generally considered poor form to criticize mod action in any forum. That's what modmail is for. It works a lot better if first mention is there, respectful, and succinct.
What am I supposed to see in that link if your comments is deleted?
So you have public mod logs, but are worried Perun messes about maliciously at will? Please help me understand
This seems to be the best comment in the linked thread:
I agree.
Other than that, calling to fire Perun makes no sense. He isn't paid. You don't know if the site owner decided to let IP2 loose in gaming but everybody blamed Perun for it. You don't know if Perun cleaned everything up using access to the C account
This amounts to IP2 being a constant problem across .win. They describe themselves as drunk 14 year olds. It affected gaming for 3 days. 3 months ago.
That's it.