Yes the quote is a copy pasta from reddit describing mockingly the behavior of a moderator views, I used it to further illustrate the point in which Perun and your defense of his action is seen from my perspective.
Modmail and trust? The only part of modmail (clarification of what I mean is modmail, Incase there is a misunderstanding, with modmail I mean message the moderators function) is that it is anonymous of whom answer and since it goes to all on the list, who knows how it is handled, Thus I cannot know if it is deleted or replied and then forgotten.
But my point about trust is that the system you explain here:
Implementing that is a compromise, meaning nobody ever gets what they want. Part of making this work is making mod logs public so people can see if one mod is off base. All (or at least most) mods should be replaced periodically to avoid burnout and increase participation, IMHO.
Mods can steer a .win down the middle of its stated purpose by stickying posts. Hopefully that's the biggest part of the duty and there aren't many reports>
How can that work when we have a known "super mod" which overrules arbitrarily?
The very method this setup entails means that the super mod and above people need to be quite detached from the handling of community themselves otherwise you have a centralized structure that will be corrupted and the system in which you propose I can only see flourish while the illusion of the super admins detachment to individual community is kept.
The poor handling of the shitstorm and the later method of trying to just remove everything quietly under the rug? (At least it seems to be that sort of panic response) And when trying to point it out to other mods or admin, I either get nonchalant answer or the void. This shatters the illusion for me, have not kept a record of the value nor data so do not know how many other it affected and knowing reddit, you could probably keep doing this a lot more times before the illusion has faded.
I know nothing about KIA or gaming .wins. Maybe you can take something here and inject it into the community and do some good?
And don't worry, I told you trust is nil, I will not return to gaming nor any of the other wins. I will remain here until this inevitably get shutdown aswell.
How can that work when we have a known "super mod" which overrules arbitrarily?
Very fair point! Has Perun taken the reins of gaming other than this really strange 3 day spell?
Modmail does go to the whole group of that specific .win, but it getting deleted later shouldn't be a problem unless it's just ignored. Mods can't delete modmail btw, afaIk it exists forever. I'd hope there's some automatic purge function but I haven't seen evidence of that.
otherwise you have a centralized structure that will be corrupted
This is where knowing the history and creation of .win becomes important. You can read it. Our current "top dog" is legendary; for vision, faithfulness to it, and dev ability. If there's a cause for concern it's the project getting too big for him, burnout, and others involved being jerks. I have not seen or heard anything negative out of Perun other than my interaction with you. I'm not saying you're wrong but you haven't given me anything specific other than 3 days that were really strange by all accounts.
That truly was a panic situation. Personally, I think it was a mistake to bring at least 2 groups here, IP2 (the one that caused the shitstorm) being the worst. That's hindsight. I know why they were brought over and the intentions were good.
I still don't see how any of this impacts you now other than burnout from past Reddit experience?
Unfortunately I have not kept up to date with any action of perun since those 3 days, so I cannot inform you weather this is a normal pattern of behavior or not but the lack of clarification from c and the rest of the mods and the lack of reinstating removed post and topics (which could be used as indirect response) which were not spammed by user (thus ensuring that topic thread could be used for containment and somewhat easier handling) is what all is based on. That and the passage of time.
have asked C himself for clarification, that was months ago. My Message to this day remains deleted in the win.gaming where I ask for a official statement regarding peruns fuckup
Expecting to get a response from C is not reasonable. Again, he basically does everything to run this site as a dev.
It's generally considered poor form to criticize mod action in any forum. That's what modmail is for. It works a lot better if first mention is there, respectful, and succinct.
What am I supposed to see in that link if your comments is deleted?
So you have public mod logs, but are worried Perun messes about maliciously at will? Please help me understand
So you have public mod logs, but are worried Perun messes about maliciously at will? Please help me understand
Yes. I do not know his level of authority or access, and messing with logs is very common pattern in compromised organizations and then using that further to declare people wrong. Each N node Outside of others control and each other with the copy of the resource mitigate the possibility of successfully doing a log purge or other tricks (does not stop it in its entirety, since you can always burn it all if you got enough resources but should at least increase the cost to not be abused too much too quickly).
What am I supposed to see in that link if your comments is deleted?
it's generally considered poor form to criticize mod action in any forum. That's what modmail is for. It works a lot better if first mention is there, respectful, and succinct.
Agreed, which is why I try to limit public stuff to only grievous stuff.
Expecting to get a response from C is not reasonable. Again, he basically does everything to run this site as a dev.
Modmail, is due to his connection not a secure channel. You say that it cannot be deleted and perhaps that is true but I only got your word for it atm.
It is also not easy to prove whatever is stated there outside (Could take pictures, but any pictures could be claimed to be forged,Taking a copy of the page, same deal And giving the password and account access to strangers even if the loss of this account is a very minor setback is not long time viable strategy).
And perun due to his status is de facto vice head (at least it looks to be on the outside, perhaps there is a hidden mod with a backdoor access to be the actual vice head :D ) thus it is the logical choice to try and go the next head in the hierarchy, or what do you expect the other mods to do about it?
This seems to be the best comment in the linked thread:
Why are these retards even allowed on the website in the first place? Why are they being sent to other boards when they have their own board? Just tell them to fuck off to 4chan and be done with it.
I agree.
Other than that, calling to fire Perun makes no sense. He isn't paid. You don't know if the site owner decided to let IP2 loose in gaming but everybody blamed Perun for it. You don't know if Perun cleaned everything up using access to the C account
This amounts to IP2 being a constant problem across .win. They describe themselves as drunk 14 year olds. It affected gaming for 3 days. 3 months ago.
c/gaming is pretty dead and empty streaming and gaming go hand in hand. You are welcome to use this community as your own, so long as you also allow all other gaming posts. I will mod up anyone of your choosing from the list of pinged names or another you agree on. When I am able to get you your own of your own name then we can discuss things further.
And hashing out the details further.
There is never any mention of the gaming mods, nor even to the gaming community meager as it is.
Other than that, calling to fire Perun makes no sense. He isn't paid. You don't know if the site owner decided to let IP2 loose in gaming but everybody blamed Perun for it. You don't know if Perun cleaned everything up using access to the C account
Indeed, I do not know, but as always the illusion of trust and accountability must be upheld. (I would have preferred an actual system of trust and accountability, but the nature of this site never intended to go to that extreme so illusion is the best I can demand).
Yes the quote is a copy pasta from reddit describing mockingly the behavior of a moderator views, I used it to further illustrate the point in which Perun and your defense of his action is seen from my perspective.
Modmail and trust? The only part of modmail (clarification of what I mean is modmail, Incase there is a misunderstanding, with modmail I mean message the moderators function) is that it is anonymous of whom answer and since it goes to all on the list, who knows how it is handled, Thus I cannot know if it is deleted or replied and then forgotten.
But my point about trust is that the system you explain here:
How can that work when we have a known "super mod" which overrules arbitrarily? The very method this setup entails means that the super mod and above people need to be quite detached from the handling of community themselves otherwise you have a centralized structure that will be corrupted and the system in which you propose I can only see flourish while the illusion of the super admins detachment to individual community is kept.
The poor handling of the shitstorm and the later method of trying to just remove everything quietly under the rug? (At least it seems to be that sort of panic response) And when trying to point it out to other mods or admin, I either get nonchalant answer or the void. This shatters the illusion for me, have not kept a record of the value nor data so do not know how many other it affected and knowing reddit, you could probably keep doing this a lot more times before the illusion has faded.
And don't worry, I told you trust is nil, I will not return to gaming nor any of the other wins. I will remain here until this inevitably get shutdown aswell.
Very fair point! Has Perun taken the reins of gaming other than this really strange 3 day spell?
Modmail does go to the whole group of that specific .win, but it getting deleted later shouldn't be a problem unless it's just ignored. Mods can't delete modmail btw, afaIk it exists forever. I'd hope there's some automatic purge function but I haven't seen evidence of that.
This is where knowing the history and creation of .win becomes important. You can read it. Our current "top dog" is legendary; for vision, faithfulness to it, and dev ability. If there's a cause for concern it's the project getting too big for him, burnout, and others involved being jerks. I have not seen or heard anything negative out of Perun other than my interaction with you. I'm not saying you're wrong but you haven't given me anything specific other than 3 days that were really strange by all accounts.
That truly was a panic situation. Personally, I think it was a mistake to bring at least 2 groups here, IP2 (the one that caused the shitstorm) being the worst. That's hindsight. I know why they were brought over and the intentions were good.
I still don't see how any of this impacts you now other than burnout from past Reddit experience?
https://www.google.com/search?q=lyrics+to+Suspicious+minds&oq=lyrics+to+Suspicious+minds&aqs=chrome..69i57.17909j0j4&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
Never had an account on Reddit.
I have asked C himself for clarification, that was months ago. My Message to this day remains deleted in the win.gaming where I ask for a official statement regarding peruns fuckup (https://communities.win/c/Gaming/p/12jJdvfYnd/this-community-is-for-gaming/c)(https://communities.win/c/Gaming/logs?page=14).
Mod mail regarding the removal and lack of response have not been answered.
I also asked him(C) later in meta, an other domain of Perun, where he likes to remove calls of his dismissal of position. (https://communities.win/c/Meta/p/12jJdxvWtT/x/c)(https://communities.win/c/Meta/logs?page=13), All of these post are also archived in order to ensure that if further stuff occurs it will be harder to forget.
Unfortunately I have not kept up to date with any action of perun since those 3 days, so I cannot inform you weather this is a normal pattern of behavior or not but the lack of clarification from c and the rest of the mods and the lack of reinstating removed post and topics (which could be used as indirect response) which were not spammed by user (thus ensuring that topic thread could be used for containment and somewhat easier handling) is what all is based on. That and the passage of time.
Expecting to get a response from C is not reasonable. Again, he basically does everything to run this site as a dev.
It's generally considered poor form to criticize mod action in any forum. That's what modmail is for. It works a lot better if first mention is there, respectful, and succinct.
What am I supposed to see in that link if your comments is deleted?
So you have public mod logs, but are worried Perun messes about maliciously at will? Please help me understand
Yes. I do not know his level of authority or access, and messing with logs is very common pattern in compromised organizations and then using that further to declare people wrong. Each N node Outside of others control and each other with the copy of the resource mitigate the possibility of successfully doing a log purge or other tricks (does not stop it in its entirety, since you can always burn it all if you got enough resources but should at least increase the cost to not be abused too much too quickly).
The second link is to the modlog(https://communities.win/c/Gaming/logs?page=14) it is merely proof that it is Perun whom has done the removal. (it also show part of the message).
Which was the message qouted.
Agreed, which is why I try to limit public stuff to only grievous stuff.
Modmail, is due to his connection not a secure channel. You say that it cannot be deleted and perhaps that is true but I only got your word for it atm. It is also not easy to prove whatever is stated there outside (Could take pictures, but any pictures could be claimed to be forged,Taking a copy of the page, same deal And giving the password and account access to strangers even if the loss of this account is a very minor setback is not long time viable strategy).
And perun due to his status is de facto vice head (at least it looks to be on the outside, perhaps there is a hidden mod with a backdoor access to be the actual vice head :D ) thus it is the logical choice to try and go the next head in the hierarchy, or what do you expect the other mods to do about it?
This seems to be the best comment in the linked thread:
I agree.
Other than that, calling to fire Perun makes no sense. He isn't paid. You don't know if the site owner decided to let IP2 loose in gaming but everybody blamed Perun for it. You don't know if Perun cleaned everything up using access to the C account
This amounts to IP2 being a constant problem across .win. They describe themselves as drunk 14 year olds. It affected gaming for 3 days. 3 months ago.
That's it.
Is the discussion in which he states
And hashing out the details further.
There is never any mention of the gaming mods, nor even to the gaming community meager as it is.
Indeed, I do not know, but as always the illusion of trust and accountability must be upheld. (I would have preferred an actual system of trust and accountability, but the nature of this site never intended to go to that extreme so illusion is the best I can demand).