The History and Moral Philosophy class segments are very blatantly authorial self-insertion in order to preach the philosophy that comprises the backbone of the story. However, they're well done and I agree with Heinlein Dubois overall. Some of it is almost prescient
"Law-abiding people [...] hardly dared go into a public park at night. To do so was to risk attack by wolf packs of children, armed [...] to be get at least, robbed most certainly, injured for life probably--or even killed. [...] these things also happened on the streets in daylight, on school grounds, even inside school buildings"
Matches pretty well with what we see in today's urban youth, with pretty much the same causes.Public schools seem more like warzones today, especially in diverse areas. Though I suppose prescience might be giving Heinlein a bit too much credit, as I'm sure there were similar issues arising in the 60s as well. He describes the failings in the modern penal system very well. Delinquents, if charged at all, live in relative comfort among others of a similar mindset, learn more delinquency and are back on the streets until they commit an act heinous enough to warrant death or permanent confinement.
News organs and officials usually kept their names secret [...] A boy might be arrested and convicted several times before he was punished
Where have I seen that before? Surely not in the black communities of the US, that would be racist to notice. Though I suppose Starship Troopers would be dodeca-ultra-secret canceled for fascist thought if Heinlein was ever of a racial mindset.
I think Heinlein does sum up the necessity of discipline in order to instill a sense of duty very well. Resonates today. We have so many people told they have rights, but they have no sense of why. It's how things get perverted to the right to kill your unborn child, the right to whore around with no consequence, the right for Kangs to take reparashuns from whitey. Haha, we're not officially at the last one yet, but last year's looting spree is a good precursor. Duty is the adult virtue, and we have so many people today without the slightest consideration of it. They were never taught it as children, whether because of a lack of spanking or whatever you want to assign the cause to, the end result is the same. Our modern culture is hopelessly infantilized. People unironically talk about "adulting" as if it's something you do, rather than something you are. No media must be allowed to make anyone uncomfortable, things are described with the monosyllabic speech of babies, even in supposedly reputable media outlets, "gross", "icky", "mean", etc. I think the final bit of Dubois's speech is poignant as we all live through the slow collapse of the West
The junior hoodlums who roamed the streets were symptoms of a greater sickness; their citizens glorified their mythology of 'rights' ... and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure
I really enjoyed Heinlein's description of the power armor. Just enough to be interesting, just enough that it makes sense, but not too much that the proposed mechanisms it works by would fall flat in a modern day sci-fi. Very well done to be able to write future tech in the 60s and still have it be plausible 60 years later.
Johnnie's experience with combat is well paced, and continues driving home the points Heinlein made earlier about duty and responsibility. MI takes care of their own, no matter what. You saw that in Chapter 1, which chronologically must take place after 10, with Flores. And it's continued here with Johnnie trying to save a dead man when everything's fubar on Klendathu, with the Lieutenant saving 2 others, purposefully left unnamed. It drives home the importance of duty for a citizen in the novel's universe, that you need to be able to put others ahead of yourself without thinking. You need to be able to be, without thinking, the mother cat dying to save her kittens to truly be a moral adult.
I couldn't help but feel like the History and Moral Philosophy class was not substantially different from the inserted government coursework we see a lot today (e.g. CRT, gender studies, etc.). Maybe it was from Johnnie's father's comment early on about it being something like propaganda. Sure, the content of the class was different, but it was still government inserted education. Can I really say it's good to insert indoctrination into education because I agree with the content?
Seems true as well, that those segments are Heinlen's way of inserting his own viewpoints without being totally direct about it.
You're right in that I'm very attuned to seeing the pushing of political ideology into kids. I wasn't really having an emotional response, but more of noticing this in the book and thought it would make a good discussion point. I am a bit torn on it, but that's mostly from being calloused from seeing the garbage ideology being pushed in our own schools. The fact of the matter is if they were to teach good ideology in schools today, I'd most likely celebrate it.
Your many points regarding correct opinions did make me think of Yuri Bezmenov and his talks/writings on Soviet subversion. The "medicine" he suggests for this is essentially "correct" subversion. Subversion of truth. I don't think he says it directly, but essentially is speaking to the necessity to teach good ideology as a shield against the bad.
It's not education in general, just the History and Moral Philosophy part I'm pointing out. It's just inserted curriculum to teach the kids what to think. It's not described as just a general history class even, but as a government inserted course. So my point being that while I tend to agree more with what it's teaching, is that the only difference between History and Moral Philosophy versus something like Black History or Critical Race Theory?
It's more of a food for thought type question, as I can't decide for myself. Part of me says "yeah, it's good to teach" while the other questions my own hypocrisy.
Fundamentally it's a necessary evil. You have to teach the next generation how to act otherwise the society will fail. The only way to make sure everyone is taught the same thing is to apply it via society in the form of curriculum.
The society didn't just happen by accident, and it requires "maintenance" to continue to function and retain that form. It's a fair point that "education" and "indoctrination" are not discrete categories, they blur together.
The History and Moral Philosophy class segments are very blatantly authorial self-insertion in order to preach the philosophy that comprises the backbone of the story. However, they're well done and I agree with
HeinleinDubois overall. Some of it is almost prescientMatches pretty well with what we see in today's urban youth, with pretty much the same causes.Public schools seem more like warzones today, especially in diverse areas. Though I suppose prescience might be giving Heinlein a bit too much credit, as I'm sure there were similar issues arising in the 60s as well. He describes the failings in the modern penal system very well. Delinquents, if charged at all, live in relative comfort among others of a similar mindset, learn more delinquency and are back on the streets until they commit an act heinous enough to warrant death or permanent confinement.
Where have I seen that before? Surely not in the black communities of the US, that would be racist to notice. Though I suppose Starship Troopers would be dodeca-ultra-secret canceled for fascist thought if Heinlein was ever of a racial mindset.
I think Heinlein does sum up the necessity of discipline in order to instill a sense of duty very well. Resonates today. We have so many people told they have rights, but they have no sense of why. It's how things get perverted to the right to kill your unborn child, the right to whore around with no consequence, the right for Kangs to take reparashuns from whitey. Haha, we're not officially at the last one yet, but last year's looting spree is a good precursor. Duty is the adult virtue, and we have so many people today without the slightest consideration of it. They were never taught it as children, whether because of a lack of spanking or whatever you want to assign the cause to, the end result is the same. Our modern culture is hopelessly infantilized. People unironically talk about "adulting" as if it's something you do, rather than something you are. No media must be allowed to make anyone uncomfortable, things are described with the monosyllabic speech of babies, even in supposedly reputable media outlets, "gross", "icky", "mean", etc. I think the final bit of Dubois's speech is poignant as we all live through the slow collapse of the West
I really enjoyed Heinlein's description of the power armor. Just enough to be interesting, just enough that it makes sense, but not too much that the proposed mechanisms it works by would fall flat in a modern day sci-fi. Very well done to be able to write future tech in the 60s and still have it be plausible 60 years later.
Johnnie's experience with combat is well paced, and continues driving home the points Heinlein made earlier about duty and responsibility. MI takes care of their own, no matter what. You saw that in Chapter 1, which chronologically must take place after 10, with Flores. And it's continued here with Johnnie trying to save a dead man when everything's fubar on Klendathu, with the Lieutenant saving 2 others, purposefully left unnamed. It drives home the importance of duty for a citizen in the novel's universe, that you need to be able to put others ahead of yourself without thinking. You need to be able to be, without thinking, the mother cat dying to save her kittens to truly be a moral adult.
I couldn't help but feel like the History and Moral Philosophy class was not substantially different from the inserted government coursework we see a lot today (e.g. CRT, gender studies, etc.). Maybe it was from Johnnie's father's comment early on about it being something like propaganda. Sure, the content of the class was different, but it was still government inserted education. Can I really say it's good to insert indoctrination into education because I agree with the content?
Seems true as well, that those segments are Heinlen's way of inserting his own viewpoints without being totally direct about it.
You're right in that I'm very attuned to seeing the pushing of political ideology into kids. I wasn't really having an emotional response, but more of noticing this in the book and thought it would make a good discussion point. I am a bit torn on it, but that's mostly from being calloused from seeing the garbage ideology being pushed in our own schools. The fact of the matter is if they were to teach good ideology in schools today, I'd most likely celebrate it.
Your many points regarding correct opinions did make me think of Yuri Bezmenov and his talks/writings on Soviet subversion. The "medicine" he suggests for this is essentially "correct" subversion. Subversion of truth. I don't think he says it directly, but essentially is speaking to the necessity to teach good ideology as a shield against the bad.
It's not education in general, just the History and Moral Philosophy part I'm pointing out. It's just inserted curriculum to teach the kids what to think. It's not described as just a general history class even, but as a government inserted course. So my point being that while I tend to agree more with what it's teaching, is that the only difference between History and Moral Philosophy versus something like Black History or Critical Race Theory?
It's more of a food for thought type question, as I can't decide for myself. Part of me says "yeah, it's good to teach" while the other questions my own hypocrisy.
Fundamentally it's a necessary evil. You have to teach the next generation how to act otherwise the society will fail. The only way to make sure everyone is taught the same thing is to apply it via society in the form of curriculum.
The society didn't just happen by accident, and it requires "maintenance" to continue to function and retain that form. It's a fair point that "education" and "indoctrination" are not discrete categories, they blur together.