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65
Uhhh...based libertarians? (media.kotakuinaction2.win)
posted 4 years ago by SparkMandrill83 4 years ago by SparkMandrill83 +66 / -1
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– exilde 1 point 4 years ago +1 / -0

There's not supposed to be a deal.

You unintentionally hit on the overarching problem with libertarianism. Incidentally, it's the problem with all ideologies that ignore basic human nature.

It is a deal, as much as an unattended $20 is.

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– Gizortnik 1 point 4 years ago +1 / -0

Libertarianism didn't build public corporations and welfare states.

You're missing my point. If someone wants to come to America, that can't be part of a human trafficking scheme.

People who want to come to America need to earn their way in as individuals.

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– exilde 1 point 4 years ago +1 / -0

I know what you're saying, but my point is, they don't come here for public corporations or the welfare state. They come here because the nations they built never developed very far, and they're poor.

Efforts to stop them are a bit out of line with libertarian ideology, at least as it used to stand.

As soon as it looks like Americans might not pay for illegals to work, they leave. If you stop paying illegals to come here, then they won't come either

Americans individually will pay bottom dollar for labor. So you have to flex a little authoritarianism to make something like this happen. "Guy's Remodelling", picking up 4 random Mexicans on the corner each morning, isn't a public corporation. It's just a supply and demand thing.

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– Gizortnik 1 point 4 years ago +1 / -0

I know what you're saying, but my point is, they don't come here for public corporations or the welfare state. They come here because the nations they built never developed very far, and they're poor.

They absolutely come for the welfare state, that's a driving factor for mass migration in Europe, but it's also a factor in the US. The primary factor in the US is a corporate plantation which gives them an effective welfare state.

Efforts to stop them are a bit out of line with libertarian ideology, at least as it used to stand.

It's called "controlled opposition".

Americans individually will pay bottom dollar for labor. So you have to flex a little authoritarianism to make something like this happen. "Guy's Remodelling", picking up 4 random Mexicans on the corner each morning, isn't a public corporation. It's just a supply and demand thing.

This is a supply and demand thing, but it's a different problem you have the wrong direction for a solution. They literally can't hire people legally without incurring huge costs. American labor is over-priced because of all the protectionism that makes sure no one can afford it. This drives up use of illegal labor as well as automation. If it were legal to pay Americans a simple wage with no massive legal and regulatory barriers in place, there would be no issue.

This is why California is doing everything in it's power to destroy the "gig economy". They want everyone to be paid $25 an hour with a massive corporate benefit scheme at an incredible cost that will destroy all but the largest businesses who will get subsidies, tax-breaks, and write-offs to stay afloat. They want only corporate slaves, and for everyone else to be a politically and economically dependent underclass made loyal by welfare state slavery, grateful that Amazon finally gave them a chance after being on a wait-list for 2 years.

If legal American labor was allowed to compete with few restrictions and mandated "benefits", the competition would be too stiff for illegals to want to come. Instead the government ensures that they create conditions that incentivize the largest businesses to import as many millions as they can carry.

Like I said, if you want to create even worse mass migration, increasing the cost of legal American labor is the best way to do it.

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– TheModernDaVinci 1 point 4 years ago +1 / -0

Your point also applies to workers already in the US and legal as well. We have seen a trend in the last few years of some companies starting to move manufacturing back to the United States. You have seen many automotive factories opening in places like Tennessee and Kentucky, you have seen large electronics and microchip factories being built in Arizona, there is a small but growing shipbuilding industry starting up in Alabama and Florida, and Texas was asked what industry it wished to expand and they said "Yes." But you may notice, none of that is California, or the Upper Midwest ("Rust Belt"), or New York.

And why go South? Well, because instead of having to give their workers lavish benefits packages and significant hourly wages, they can go to the South/Southwest, give significant but not obscene benefits, pay wages that while lower than other areas are plenty enough for local standards (a $15/hour wage in Texas will get you MUCH further than a $25/hour wage in Michigan or California), and there is also more room to expand when the time comes. Then there is the bonus that workers in the South are not only not interested in unionizing, they are actively hostile to unions, which paradoxically can be better for the workers in this modern age.

But of course, the people being left behind because their own ideologue became so toxic to business that they decided they would never come back, only become even more hostile to business. Which just causes the problem to keep spiraling out of control, and eventually something to is going to have to break. I am just not sure what will break.

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