So, along with the "it failed because it wasn't true communism" crowd are we going to have growing "-wasn't true theocracy" and "-wasn't true facism" groups now? Is human history is just raring for a fucking encore?
We only had secular liberalism because the non-secular societies preceding it collapsed too. All those authoritarian paradigms eventually collapsed because they simply don't work if your leaders are selfish pieces of shit, and competitive leadership positions strongly select for selfish pieces of shit, especially over the long term. And human nature has not changed significantly enough in the last millennium that there don't exist new POS to ruin new authoritarian systems, so frankly I think only an idiot thinks we should have another go at any of those as-is and expect it to turn out any different. It might work out very briefly if the first or second leader turns out to have good intentions, but the second a bad one backstabs their way to the top it's game over, the system will never work as intended again, and have fun tearing down a system you've empowered with the means to unilaterally control the people.
Hell if you wanted to gamble on a benevolent dictator you'd have more luck with some really oldschool bullshit like a monarchy or ancient Greek style democracy where you pick some random shmuck off the street and give him power for a while. At least then it's just down to dumb bad luck when you get an asshole, rather that setting up a prize to attract the schemes of every ambitious asshole in the country.
If we're playing the "not true X" game you can argue any secular liberalism that lets wokeism take over and dictate terms to the masses is some pussy version and not true liberalism. Practical liberalism that hopes to survive should be more than just "everyone has maximal personal liberty and is free to hold their own beliefs" it should also have the caveat "but the one single thing 95% of us agree on is to band together and BTFO anyone who even looks like they mean to change that".
It's slightly facetious but whatever, the point is you can always make excuses for a failed social order. There's always the potential to improve on previous ideas and maybe find a way to make it work, but if you're going to make excuses for just one but not the others then you're probably going to end up with the wrong answer, and there's no reason to be certain the best option isn't actually something new either.
It's not strawmanning to ask a question, and "secular" is glaringly conspicuous in it's inclusion alongside a criticism liberalism.
Complaining about 'non-theocratic liberalism' smells funny in the same way someone complaining about the flaws of 'non-communist socialism' sure sounds a lot like someone trying to warm the room up for some tankie bullshit.
So, along with the "it failed because it wasn't true communism" crowd are we going to have growing "-wasn't true theocracy" and "-wasn't true facism" groups now? Is human history is just raring for a fucking encore?
We only had secular liberalism because the non-secular societies preceding it collapsed too. All those authoritarian paradigms eventually collapsed because they simply don't work if your leaders are selfish pieces of shit, and competitive leadership positions strongly select for selfish pieces of shit, especially over the long term. And human nature has not changed significantly enough in the last millennium that there don't exist new POS to ruin new authoritarian systems, so frankly I think only an idiot thinks we should have another go at any of those as-is and expect it to turn out any different. It might work out very briefly if the first or second leader turns out to have good intentions, but the second a bad one backstabs their way to the top it's game over, the system will never work as intended again, and have fun tearing down a system you've empowered with the means to unilaterally control the people.
Hell if you wanted to gamble on a benevolent dictator you'd have more luck with some really oldschool bullshit like a monarchy or ancient Greek style democracy where you pick some random shmuck off the street and give him power for a while. At least then it's just down to dumb bad luck when you get an asshole, rather that setting up a prize to attract the schemes of every ambitious asshole in the country.
If we're playing the "not true X" game you can argue any secular liberalism that lets wokeism take over and dictate terms to the masses is some pussy version and not true liberalism. Practical liberalism that hopes to survive should be more than just "everyone has maximal personal liberty and is free to hold their own beliefs" it should also have the caveat "but the one single thing 95% of us agree on is to band together and BTFO anyone who even looks like they mean to change that".
It's slightly facetious but whatever, the point is you can always make excuses for a failed social order. There's always the potential to improve on previous ideas and maybe find a way to make it work, but if you're going to make excuses for just one but not the others then you're probably going to end up with the wrong answer, and there's no reason to be certain the best option isn't actually something new either.
My only point is that classical liberalism has failed because it has allowed for the woke to capitalize on the populace's empathy and tolerance.
I haven't proposed any other form of rule as the solution so why are you strawmanning here with theocracy and fascism?
I think that the wokeism problem is very difficult to solve.
All I am saying is that classical liberalism is what got us here to this current stage of wokeism.
It's not strawmanning to ask a question, and "secular" is glaringly conspicuous in it's inclusion alongside a criticism liberalism.
Complaining about 'non-theocratic liberalism' smells funny in the same way someone complaining about the flaws of 'non-communist socialism' sure sounds a lot like someone trying to warm the room up for some tankie bullshit.
The only point I am making is that classical liberalism has failed and has allowed wokeism to take over.
What is a good solution? I don't think there is any easy solution to any of this.
Feel free to ask questions. I always advocate for more critical thinking from everyone.
We will return the House of Stuart to the throne.