The only thing I disagree with is punitive damages which are out of all proportion to the loss incurred. Punitive damages are only allowed in limited circumstances in my country, England, and they are still limited to some connection between the wrong and the alleged loss.
Make no mistake though, Jones is a scumbag. If he had followed the rules the other side would have had to prove actual malice. He did not follow the rules and he lost because of it.
…for speech. If this is your position then you need to state it in its entirety and stand by it.
You believe that a person should be punished for their speech
Come on, say that outright and with no ambiguity, and then stick around and defend your belief. I’d love to finally meet someone who believes this who has the courage to say it and defend it, but so far, without exception, everyone I’ve encountered who believes what you believe has turned out to be a coward.
You’re not aware of this because you just came here from Reddit. You came here from an ideological bubble where you have never been challenged and never needed to defend your positions. So you assume you must be right …. because after all, nobody has ever proved you wrong. But the truth is, this is the very first time in your life where proving you wrong was even allowed.
Some come on! Don’t be a coward! Confirm that you think a person should be punished for their speech.
You believe that a person should be punished for their speech
Semi-rhetorical questions (I do not accuse Jones of what follows, just throwing this up to consider what free speech absolutism should entail): what do think of rules about defamation or libel/slander? Or how should people be allowed to respond to written or verbal threats? What counts as speech?
Society has broadly accepted some amount of punishment or retribution for "improper" speech or lying (see also perjury, abetting, entrapment, harassment, disturbing the peace, misleading business partners or investors). I think the burden of proof might be on 'our' end to counteract some or all rules against badspeak.
I think that libel and slander laws are fine as they are.
The distinction that I draw is in the mind of the person communicating. The legal term is "mens rea" if you want to look it up.
If I know that something is a lie - I know it for a fact - but I say it anyway - I knowingly communicate a lie - AND ALSO I do this with the motive of materially harming you - "materially" meaning that I intend to destroy your business through repetitional damage, for example ...
... then the issue at hand is NOT the speech. Then the issue is the "mens rea" - the "guilty mind" - and the motive to cause harm.
And I think (hope, anyway) that that's what libel and slander laws address.
So, I'll give an example of something that must be protected, for society to be free, vs. something that should be prosecuted:
Christine Blasey Ford accused Brett Kavanaugh of raping her. I should be allowed to believe Ford. For whatever reason, on whatever basis, I should be allowed to have that thought. I should also be allowed to believe Kavanaugh, for whatever reason or reasons are compelling to me.
So, if I go around saying, "Kavanaugh is a rapist!" that must be protected speech. It I go around saying, "Ford is a liar" that must be protected too ...because my right to think that must be protected.
On the other hand, if Ford knows for a fact that what she's saying is a lie, and her motive (especially in waiting until he was nominated to the supreme court) is specifically to materially harm him, then she should be prosecuted ...but not for her speech. She should be prosecuted for lying with that specific motive.
So, I think a person must be allowed to think and say whatever they truly believe ...even if they're wrong. If you really believe that Kavanaugh is a rapist, or your really believe that Bush did 911, or you really believe that Trump is hitler, you must be allowed to think and say it.
But if you don't actually believe, but you say it anyway AND your motive is to materially harm (not emotionally, but materially) then I think you should face financial repercussions.
Alex Jones deserved to be punished. He was the subject of a default judgment due to litigation misconduct. He did not answer questions or comply with discovery. After he lost and had damages awarded against him, the bankruptcy court found he could not discharge many of his debts in bankruptcy due to "wilful or malicious injury".
The only thing I disagree with is punitive damages which are out of all proportion to the loss incurred. Punitive damages are only allowed in limited circumstances in my country, England, and they are still limited to some connection between the wrong and the alleged loss.
Make no mistake though, Jones is a scumbag. If he had followed the rules the other side would have had to prove actual malice. He did not follow the rules and he lost because of it.
…for speech. If this is your position then you need to state it in its entirety and stand by it.
You believe that a person should be punished for their speech
Come on, say that outright and with no ambiguity, and then stick around and defend your belief. I’d love to finally meet someone who believes this who has the courage to say it and defend it, but so far, without exception, everyone I’ve encountered who believes what you believe has turned out to be a coward.
You’re not aware of this because you just came here from Reddit. You came here from an ideological bubble where you have never been challenged and never needed to defend your positions. So you assume you must be right …. because after all, nobody has ever proved you wrong. But the truth is, this is the very first time in your life where proving you wrong was even allowed.
Some come on! Don’t be a coward! Confirm that you think a person should be punished for their speech.
Semi-rhetorical questions (I do not accuse Jones of what follows, just throwing this up to consider what free speech absolutism should entail): what do think of rules about defamation or libel/slander? Or how should people be allowed to respond to written or verbal threats? What counts as speech?
Society has broadly accepted some amount of punishment or retribution for "improper" speech or lying (see also perjury, abetting, entrapment, harassment, disturbing the peace, misleading business partners or investors). I think the burden of proof might be on 'our' end to counteract some or all rules against badspeak.
I think that libel and slander laws are fine as they are.
The distinction that I draw is in the mind of the person communicating. The legal term is "mens rea" if you want to look it up.
If I know that something is a lie - I know it for a fact - but I say it anyway - I knowingly communicate a lie - AND ALSO I do this with the motive of materially harming you - "materially" meaning that I intend to destroy your business through repetitional damage, for example ...
... then the issue at hand is NOT the speech. Then the issue is the "mens rea" - the "guilty mind" - and the motive to cause harm.
And I think (hope, anyway) that that's what libel and slander laws address.
So, I'll give an example of something that must be protected, for society to be free, vs. something that should be prosecuted:
Christine Blasey Ford accused Brett Kavanaugh of raping her. I should be allowed to believe Ford. For whatever reason, on whatever basis, I should be allowed to have that thought. I should also be allowed to believe Kavanaugh, for whatever reason or reasons are compelling to me.
So, if I go around saying, "Kavanaugh is a rapist!" that must be protected speech. It I go around saying, "Ford is a liar" that must be protected too ...because my right to think that must be protected.
On the other hand, if Ford knows for a fact that what she's saying is a lie, and her motive (especially in waiting until he was nominated to the supreme court) is specifically to materially harm him, then she should be prosecuted ...but not for her speech. She should be prosecuted for lying with that specific motive.
So, I think a person must be allowed to think and say whatever they truly believe ...even if they're wrong. If you really believe that Kavanaugh is a rapist, or your really believe that Bush did 911, or you really believe that Trump is hitler, you must be allowed to think and say it.
But if you don't actually believe, but you say it anyway AND your motive is to materially harm (not emotionally, but materially) then I think you should face financial repercussions.