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When was the last time you came across a soft spoken and submissive female character in Western media?
posted 231 days ago by yoisi 231 days ago by yoisi +76 / -1

i can't think of any within the last 50 years. Even in the 1990's and 1980's female characters in Western media were pretty much all girl bosses.

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– Adamrises 8 points 231 days ago +8 / -0

Because you're removing their agency, you are making them inherently forgettable

Anime/manga prove this wrong yearly for you. Most male characters in romcoms/SoL shows are submissive to a point where its a meme and yet people remember them. Gojo from Dress Up Darling earlier this year is a walking sub in every sense and he is a literal Gary Stu for the author to fawn over with her self insert. Shinji Ikari is the walking poster child for submissive character traits, and his weak nature is what drives the entire plot. Heck his lack of desire to take any agency is a constant conflict.

Japanese media as a whole is filled with examples of notable characters who are submissive beyond belief to a point where it barely feels realistic to our non-Collectivist mindsets. Osamu Dasai is one of their most famous writers ever and his autobiography is built on "I am physically unable to refuse any question given to me, I am too frightened."

Your point about submission and its inherently negative connotation being intertwined with femininity is very valid, but you shouldn't make Absolute Statements because a single example otherwise renders them invalid and wrong. If you meant this to only apply to Western works, you should specify because it sounds like you are making a very definitive universal statement outside the scope of OP's question.

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– Gizortnik 2 points 230 days ago +3 / -1

In fairness, he said western media, but fine.

I would say that the eastern, submissive, asian, male thing is a strange cultural icon in japan, and I'm not sure why.

To be honest, whenever I see those characters, I find them actively repulsive, which is probably a cultural bias in the west.

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– Adamrises 3 points 230 days ago +3 / -0

He did, but you were speaking definitively as "submissive characters can never" which makes it sound universally applied regardless.

Also while I don't find them to be good characters and am pretty repulsed by them myself, they do impact the story and aren't inherently forgettable.

I could probably find some examples in Western media but, as OP pointed out, they are far rarer so the list to find and pick from is much smaller.

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