what do you constitute a good combat system for a third person game like wukong? dark souls 3 and elden ring combat is pretty good. dragons dogma might be better. sekiro is also good. but to be honest my personal favorite is still my own modded skyrim with custom animations, timed blocking, dodge rolls, weapon parry, mutilation, etc.
I consider Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask to be peak third person combat, any third person game that has proper lock on is good in my book because the camera isn't such an issue. I'm just not really a fan of the modern QTE style design of combat where you have to get the timing to the millisecond. Call me a scrub by all means but if I wanted that level of difficulty I'd spar RL with martial arts and I do.
Now that I think about it, regarding the timing of combat blows and such, I remember how older games would have pretty obvious flashes and stuff to warn you of an attack whereas with other games now it's not obvious at all. I wonder if that's partly because of health and safety obsessed lawyers who told studios to not put anything like that in for fear of giving somebody epilepsy. Flashes back in the day were a really good game feature but they barely use them anymore.
Fromsoft combat has lock-on, and every attack is telegraphed so the player can react. I don't see why you have such a problem with it.
And I love me some Zelda, but the combat from those games is not at all what makes them great. Zelda games are about exploration and puzzle solving. The combat is almost an afterthought.
I play OoT/MM Randomizers at least monthly and I can tell you the camera in them breaks under the slightest pressure and the combat is literally garbage if you step outside the exact linear progression (and don't grind at least some hearts during it).
OoT never pushes you with its non-existent difficulty, which means the cracks are never under pressure enough to show. Which is why it is such a top tier game. But the combat is otherwise the absolute worst part of that game.
I'm just not really a fan of the modern QTE style design of combat where you have to get the timing to the millisecond
This nigga just forgot Phantom Ganon/Real Ganon exists with its volleyball game, especially if you try to do it with a bottle which is a millisecond timing. Or Morpha's absurd hitboxes if you don't instantly hit him.
Let's not even mention that nearly every boss is a gimmick fight of "use the dungeon item or die."
The hitboxes for the ganandorf volleyball was extremely easy to hit unless you're disabled you shouldn't struggle, you also could tell which ganandorf was real based on visual cues. I know it's not a third person game per say but one of the only games I've seen do the melee combat nicely is Mordhau. I have to be in the mood to deal with the timing for that though.
As for the camera breaking, yeah shock, the very carefully designed game doesn't work right if you start fucking with it's code not knowing why devs set things up a certain way. In fact, most old games are like that and believe it or not it's one of the big reasons they were so good, they were designed extremely well. They're not just a bunch of thrown together procedurally generated or randomised assets.
They actually aren't very good, especially the faster ones, because they are quite small and will hit you from a good foot away because the return is linked to the tip of your sword while hitting it with the lower half your sword will cause it to just hit you. Its why paradoxically it becomes easier to do when you un-lock onto them. I don't know what that has to do with finding the real Phantom Ganon, unless you forgot that's a whole separate character/boss fight.
Also the camera has nothing to do with messing with the code. Try doing the Gerudo fights to rescue the carpenters, or really any fight where you can be pushed against a wall, and watch it struggle because its locked behind you or cannot deal with collision very well. Its no issue in the larger arenas (which is why all the boss fights are in one), but the more cramped areas of most mini-bosses have considerable issues.
This isn't normally a problem because the game is incredibly easy and by the time you can do most fights you aren't usually in any danger even if you get hit a bunch of extra times. But if you attempt to challenge yourself at all (or do Master Quest), you'll notice how often it holds you back or struggles. Shit the Camera cannot even handle the specifically designed challenges at times in MQ, like the Song of Time blocks in Forest Temple.
Also OoT is famous for the extremes it they went to to make it still playable even when you mess with it, its why its such a popular randomizer. Its literally impossible to become Adult Link without the Goron Bracelet, but the game has set ups for that Strength Check. Its durable beyond reason to most forms of fucking with, even if that's irrelevant to base game issues.
what do you constitute a good combat system for a third person game like wukong? dark souls 3 and elden ring combat is pretty good. dragons dogma might be better. sekiro is also good. but to be honest my personal favorite is still my own modded skyrim with custom animations, timed blocking, dodge rolls, weapon parry, mutilation, etc.
I consider Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask to be peak third person combat, any third person game that has proper lock on is good in my book because the camera isn't such an issue. I'm just not really a fan of the modern QTE style design of combat where you have to get the timing to the millisecond. Call me a scrub by all means but if I wanted that level of difficulty I'd spar RL with martial arts and I do.
Now that I think about it, regarding the timing of combat blows and such, I remember how older games would have pretty obvious flashes and stuff to warn you of an attack whereas with other games now it's not obvious at all. I wonder if that's partly because of health and safety obsessed lawyers who told studios to not put anything like that in for fear of giving somebody epilepsy. Flashes back in the day were a really good game feature but they barely use them anymore.
Fromsoft combat has lock-on, and every attack is telegraphed so the player can react. I don't see why you have such a problem with it.
And I love me some Zelda, but the combat from those games is not at all what makes them great. Zelda games are about exploration and puzzle solving. The combat is almost an afterthought.
I play OoT/MM Randomizers at least monthly and I can tell you the camera in them breaks under the slightest pressure and the combat is literally garbage if you step outside the exact linear progression (and don't grind at least some hearts during it).
OoT never pushes you with its non-existent difficulty, which means the cracks are never under pressure enough to show. Which is why it is such a top tier game. But the combat is otherwise the absolute worst part of that game.
This nigga just forgot Phantom Ganon/Real Ganon exists with its volleyball game, especially if you try to do it with a bottle which is a millisecond timing. Or Morpha's absurd hitboxes if you don't instantly hit him.
Let's not even mention that nearly every boss is a gimmick fight of "use the dungeon item or die."
The hitboxes for the ganandorf volleyball was extremely easy to hit unless you're disabled you shouldn't struggle, you also could tell which ganandorf was real based on visual cues. I know it's not a third person game per say but one of the only games I've seen do the melee combat nicely is Mordhau. I have to be in the mood to deal with the timing for that though.
As for the camera breaking, yeah shock, the very carefully designed game doesn't work right if you start fucking with it's code not knowing why devs set things up a certain way. In fact, most old games are like that and believe it or not it's one of the big reasons they were so good, they were designed extremely well. They're not just a bunch of thrown together procedurally generated or randomised assets.
They actually aren't very good, especially the faster ones, because they are quite small and will hit you from a good foot away because the return is linked to the tip of your sword while hitting it with the lower half your sword will cause it to just hit you. Its why paradoxically it becomes easier to do when you un-lock onto them. I don't know what that has to do with finding the real Phantom Ganon, unless you forgot that's a whole separate character/boss fight.
Also the camera has nothing to do with messing with the code. Try doing the Gerudo fights to rescue the carpenters, or really any fight where you can be pushed against a wall, and watch it struggle because its locked behind you or cannot deal with collision very well. Its no issue in the larger arenas (which is why all the boss fights are in one), but the more cramped areas of most mini-bosses have considerable issues.
This isn't normally a problem because the game is incredibly easy and by the time you can do most fights you aren't usually in any danger even if you get hit a bunch of extra times. But if you attempt to challenge yourself at all (or do Master Quest), you'll notice how often it holds you back or struggles. Shit the Camera cannot even handle the specifically designed challenges at times in MQ, like the Song of Time blocks in Forest Temple.
Also OoT is famous for the extremes it they went to to make it still playable even when you mess with it, its why its such a popular randomizer. Its literally impossible to become Adult Link without the Goron Bracelet, but the game has set ups for that Strength Check. Its durable beyond reason to most forms of fucking with, even if that's irrelevant to base game issues.
fair enough, wasn’t expecting zelda, but it has been a while since i played ocarina of time