No, and I'm happy to walk anyone else reading through why you're wrong.

And what an excellent job you did. I still disagree on points though.

First off, the contention is "whether propaganda influences white self-hatred."

My argument is that it is not actual self-hatred in the sense of hating yourself as a person. They may say they hate their race, but that is all. You may regard this as hair-splitting, and you may be right. Insofar as propaganda is the cause of whites saying they hate their race, for which we do not need to determine whether they actually hate themselves, you are absolutely right. What else could the cause be?

Suicide is an easy counterpoint to self-interest; if everyone is always acting out of self-interest first and foremost, which do people ever commit self harm at all?

I mean, there's a very cheap way out of that. It's an exception to the rule. Note that the mass suicide cults are far more rare than white people who hate on white people (and even they believed that they were ascending to heaven or something stupid like that). And why is that? Suicide is not in people's self-interest, which is why they don't do it (= only rarely do it). Saying "whites are bad, mkaaaay" is very much in their self-interest in places where that is said, which is why it does happen.

You may argue that I'm not actually demonstrating that this is the cause of people saying that, as I don't offer any empirical support for the claim of their precise motivation. True enough. But I don't think I need to. If you argue that I eat food because I don't want to starve, you would be correct, even if you don't have special insights into my mind. Same for other self-interested activities.

An easy counterpoint to that is that they could be killing themselves out of self-interest, because their life is so painful that ending it is the self-interested option. For example, a suicide committed out of the shame of being a bum.

In my view, survival is the highest goal of any organism, and therefore the highest interest. Suicide can never be in someone's interest. Now why would people do that? Disordered recognition of one's interests, perhaps. But there may be other factors. There is considerable evidence that suicide is a social contagion, with suicides spreading across people who know each other, and even people committing suicide because of a book (Goethe's Werther being the most notorious example). How does ending your genetic line square with self-interest, even if you're saaaaaad? Obviously, it doesn't. But it explains people's behavior most of the time, and that's the best we can aim at when attempting to craft explanations for people's behavior while leaving out many things, and I think that 'white hatred of their race' is sufficiently widespread to warrant a self-interested explanation. (Mearsheimer explains this well when he says that theory cannot explain all things, because you leave out many things, and that a sufficiently good theory will explain state behavior 75% of the time. I think this percentage is vastly greater for human self-interest motivating their actions.)

This would in turn destroy his claim that white people cannot be convinced to self-genocide because they are protected by their self-interest.

I actually don't disagree here. My claim is that white people cannot be convinced to kill themselves, personally, or do anything that is directly harmful to themselves. Can they be persuaded to do things that you call 'self-genocide', the replacement of white people? Absolutely they can. Like Sowell says, racists may prefer their own race over others, but they always prefer themselves to others and will thus act in self-interested ways that sometimes undermine things like Apartheid policies in South Africa. Similarly, if white people receive social brownie points for supporting things that are bad for white people as a whole, it's still in their particularist interest to support that.

Of course, he cannot acknowledge this without losing the debate, so he pretends that the point was "propaganda causes most suicides," which is vacuous.

I'd rather lose a debate to such substantive, interesting posts as the one you made, than win one with the usual retarded crap one sees.