That went from a reasonable enough question about Google stifling information which used to be freely available to a full on let's discuss the Second World War in a different light to how it is portrayed by the victors and their propaganda.
I'm not saying that isn't a perfectly fine conversation to have, but it does seem a little too Stormfaggy for here.
Any chance of other information being stifled? Like old science fiction stories or table gaming wars?
let's discuss the Second World War in a different light to how it is portrayed by the victors and their propaganda
It's trivially true and I can demonstrate it with only American sources. Did you know that Roosevelt caused Pearl Harbor to get himself out of his campaign pledge to not join the war?
Here's how it went down.
Crown Prince Fumimaro Konoe is prime minister. Although Konoe has been a militarist, by 1940 there is evidence that he is losing control of the government to more aggressive militarists, illustrated by the contradictory actions of signing the Tripartite Pact and signing treaties with the Kuomintang and Soviets. It's at this point that Konoe starts advocating against war, understanding that he cannot beat the Dutch, British, and Americans.
Things come to a head in Feb 1941 when Foreign Minister Matsuoka viciously berates Konoe in cabinet, all but admitting that he's been ignoring or resisting Konoe's instructions when they're contrary to his aims.
Konoe resolves to try to forestall war by meeting with Roosevelt personally, so the militarists can't sabotage him.
Joseph Grew, the US Ambassador to Japan, is informed of Konoe's intentions. He wants certainty of oil imports from US territories. In exchange, a withdraw from Manchuria is on the table. But there must be no concessions asked as a condition for the meeting to occur, they must meet as equals. Konoe cannot be seen as approaching Roosevelt from a weak position.
This situation is communicated to SecState Cordell Hull and Roosevelt.
Hull's instructions to Grew are unambiguous. No.
Grew responds to Hull that a refusal to meet with Konoe on equal footing WILL result in a collapse of the Konoe government. Hull reiterates Roosevelt's refusal.
At this point, exasperated and confused by their behavior, Grew contacts Herbert Hoover. Grew believes that Hull is deliberately trying to topple the Konoe government, but can't fathom why. Any replacement government will be MORE militarist. Grew hopes that Hoover can convince the Republicans in Congress to demand an explanation from Roosevelt, but sadly he is overestimating Hoover's remaining influence.
Nevertheless, Hoover IS able to determine why Hull is behaving as he is, though too late to do anything about it.
Simply, Roosevelt wants a war.
He knows if he refuses Konoe, Konoe will resign and he'll get a government led by someone else (probably hoping for Matsuoka). But if he flatly refuses, that's too obvious. So instead he demands concessions for a meeting to occur. Konoe can't do this in front of the militarists.
It happens the way Roosevelt and Hull want. Konoe resigns, Tojo gets the seat, and less than a year later Pearl Harbor is on fire and Roosevelt is off the hook for his campaign promise to not join the war.
After the war, Hoover gets access to Roosevelt and Hull's files through his position in the Hoover Commission, confirming that they pursued a "push them to war" policy with Japan. He documents this in his book Freedom Betrayed.
That went from a reasonable enough question about Google stifling information which used to be freely available to a full on let's discuss the Second World War in a different light to how it is portrayed by the victors and their propaganda.
I'm not saying that isn't a perfectly fine conversation to have, but it does seem a little too Stormfaggy for here.
Any chance of other information being stifled? Like old science fiction stories or table gaming wars?
It's trivially true and I can demonstrate it with only American sources. Did you know that Roosevelt caused Pearl Harbor to get himself out of his campaign pledge to not join the war?
Here's how it went down.
Crown Prince Fumimaro Konoe is prime minister. Although Konoe has been a militarist, by 1940 there is evidence that he is losing control of the government to more aggressive militarists, illustrated by the contradictory actions of signing the Tripartite Pact and signing treaties with the Kuomintang and Soviets. It's at this point that Konoe starts advocating against war, understanding that he cannot beat the Dutch, British, and Americans.
Things come to a head in Feb 1941 when Foreign Minister Matsuoka viciously berates Konoe in cabinet, all but admitting that he's been ignoring or resisting Konoe's instructions when they're contrary to his aims.
Konoe resolves to try to forestall war by meeting with Roosevelt personally, so the militarists can't sabotage him.
Joseph Grew, the US Ambassador to Japan, is informed of Konoe's intentions. He wants certainty of oil imports from US territories. In exchange, a withdraw from Manchuria is on the table. But there must be no concessions asked as a condition for the meeting to occur, they must meet as equals. Konoe cannot be seen as approaching Roosevelt from a weak position.
This situation is communicated to SecState Cordell Hull and Roosevelt.
Hull's instructions to Grew are unambiguous. No.
Grew responds to Hull that a refusal to meet with Konoe on equal footing WILL result in a collapse of the Konoe government. Hull reiterates Roosevelt's refusal.
At this point, exasperated and confused by their behavior, Grew contacts Herbert Hoover. Grew believes that Hull is deliberately trying to topple the Konoe government, but can't fathom why. Any replacement government will be MORE militarist. Grew hopes that Hoover can convince the Republicans in Congress to demand an explanation from Roosevelt, but sadly he is overestimating Hoover's remaining influence.
Nevertheless, Hoover IS able to determine why Hull is behaving as he is, though too late to do anything about it.
Simply, Roosevelt wants a war.
He knows if he refuses Konoe, Konoe will resign and he'll get a government led by someone else (probably hoping for Matsuoka). But if he flatly refuses, that's too obvious. So instead he demands concessions for a meeting to occur. Konoe can't do this in front of the militarists.
It happens the way Roosevelt and Hull want. Konoe resigns, Tojo gets the seat, and less than a year later Pearl Harbor is on fire and Roosevelt is off the hook for his campaign promise to not join the war.
After the war, Hoover gets access to Roosevelt and Hull's files through his position in the Hoover Commission, confirming that they pursued a "push them to war" policy with Japan. He documents this in his book Freedom Betrayed.
I didn't think I could despise Roosevelt more. Nice write up.