The reason I'm skeptical is this: some of the very same people who like to cite black IQ scores as proof that they're less than white people, sometimes dismiss IQ scores when they do not favor white people.
For example, on the subreddit, someone argued that higher Asian IQ scores say nothing, because Asians are supposedly not creative. Or whatever. Some sort of self-justification.
The reason I'm skeptical is this: some of the very same people who like to cite black IQ scores as proof that they're less than white people, sometimes dismiss IQ scores when they do not favor white people.
Well, I know you're not saying I'm doing that but, for the record, I'm not. Ashkenazi Jews may very well have significantly more average IQ than Hwites, I completely allow that. All I'm saying is IQ isn't necessarily responsible for Jewish success. Especially when you factor in how much ingroup preference Jews have. Jews hire or otherwise make room for other Jews, over other races. Combined with willingness to do jobs others won't - which isn't even a bad thing - they're able to corner the market in a lot of arenas.
I think if whites or Asians had the same ingroup preference, they'd take over even harder, despite their potentially lower IQs, just based off population. For example, if whites did this in a white-majority country, it would be basically 100% whites in all power. Wouldn't mean they're smarter, though, or that their intelligence is what got them there.
For example, on the subreddit, someone argued that higher Asian IQ scores say nothing, because Asians are supposedly not creative. Or whatever. Some sort of self-justification.
Yeah, that's pretty silly. Asians have done pretty dang well, historically speaking, and have created and invented a lot of stuff.
All I'm saying is IQ isn't necessarily responsible for Jewish success.
Absolutely. However, it is very convenient how societal success for every social group lines up neatly with average IQ score. Of course, this allows the 'IQ is environmental' crowd to suggest that IQ is a product and not the cause.
Especially when you factor in how much ingroup preference Jews have. Jews hire or otherwise make room for other Jews, over other races.
Is there any evidence for this though? I'm sure it's true in the diamond business of Antwerp, where transactions supposedly do not even require contracts, but in law firms?
Combined with willingness to do jobs others won't - which isn't even a bad thing
I don't think it is, I just haven't seen the evidence for it regarding lawyery.
For example, if whites did this in a white-majority country, it would be basically 100% whites in all power. Wouldn't mean they're smarter, though, or that their intelligence is what got them there.
This is an interesting question. But the funny thing is, this has actually been tried in countries like Malaysia. The result? Malays make up most of the politicians, but ethnic Chinese still vastly outearn them despite truly bizarre affirmative action programs and requirements that large parts of companies be owned by Malays.
However, it is very convenient how societal success for every social group lines up neatly with average IQ score. Of course, this allows the 'IQ is environmental' crowd to suggest that IQ is a product and not the cause.
I mean, to be fair, I do think it's a mix. You need a developed country to really shine, and things like malnutrition seem to tank IQ as well; whether that's cause or effect (or both) is up to debate, though. It's a complex issue...although perhaps I'm naive, as the ethnic makeups by country are often pretty distinct too, so you could take the same data and reach opposite conclusions based on how you view it. But the people who do better in the long term do also have higher IQ, that's certainly true.
Look at IQ per country maps, it's pretty dang interesting. Small neighboring countries have massive swings compared to each other. But ethnicities are also even more diverse than I realized, when I looked into it. Take Asia...it's really only a few of the more developed countries that show impressive IQs. Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, China, South Korea; all basically the top spots globally. After that you have to go down a long ways to find any more Asians. Heck, Kyrgyzstan borders China and has a average IQ of 79, ranking 123 globally. Kyrgyz are Turkic, whereas China is predominantly Han. Also look at something like Syria versus Iraq, or - oof - Cambodia versus Laos which - despite sharing borders - has a twenty point IQ swing. Or look at Africa, where you have massive swings in neighboring countries.
Is there any evidence for this though?
For Jews hiring Jews? I don't have any hard data on-hand, but it's hardly a reach. You can just listen to the stated values of Jews, from Jews themselves. They highly value their own people, and have massive ingroup preference. And that's a good thing. But it would be more surprising if they weren't going out of their way to look after their fellow Jews.
This is an interesting question. But the funny thing is, this has actually been tried in countries like Malaysia. The result? Malays make up most of the politicians, but ethnic Chinese still vastly outearn them despite truly bizarre affirmative action programs and requirements that large parts of companies be owned by Malays.
Huh, don't know too much about that, but sounds interesting to look into.
You need a developed country to really shine, and things like malnutrition seem to tank IQ as well; whether that's cause or effect (or both) is up to debate, though.
Yes. The consensus seems to be that every semi-developed modern country has enough good nutrition to allow for proper IQ development. Which is why China has such high average rates despite pockets of deep poverty. Though it may just be because the tests are taken in richer urban environments.
Look at IQ per country maps, it's pretty dang interesting.
Aren't those a bit controversial? Not because "IQ bad", but because of the mechanism by which those alleged numbers were acquired, or even calculated?
Take Asia...it's really only a few of the more developed countries that show impressive IQs. Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, China, South Korea; all basically the top spots globally.
I can think something else that they have in common: they are all of the Mongolian race.
Also look at something like Syria versus Iraq, or - oof - Cambodia versus Laos which - despite sharing borders - has a twenty point IQ swing.
And that is something I doubt, because Iraqis and Syrians are simply not that genetically different. Iraqis have more influences from Arabia than the Levantines, but that is not nearly enough to justify a 20 point IQ swing. That said, none of the maps I've ever seen make such a claim that I've noticed, IIRC it's just the normal Middle Eastern 80.
For Jews hiring Jews? I don't have any hard data on-hand, but it's hardly a reach. You can just listen to the stated values of Jews, from Jews themselves. They highly value their own people, and have massive ingroup preference. And that's a good thing. But it would be more surprising if they weren't going out of their way to look after their fellow Jews.
I don't think the head of Goldman Sachs has an 'in-group bias' though. Except for other members of the elites. Even if it's true that Jews, as a whole, tend to have an in-group bias, then it still does not follow that the Jews in question share that. That is the fallacy of division. What is true, on average, of the whole, is not necessarily true of the part.
Huh, don't know too much about that, but sounds interesting to look into.
Check out Thomas Sowell's Affirmative Action Around The World.
The reason I'm skeptical is this: some of the very same people who like to cite black IQ scores as proof that they're less than white people, sometimes dismiss IQ scores when they do not favor white people.
For example, on the subreddit, someone argued that higher Asian IQ scores say nothing, because Asians are supposedly not creative. Or whatever. Some sort of self-justification.
Well, I know you're not saying I'm doing that but, for the record, I'm not. Ashkenazi Jews may very well have significantly more average IQ than Hwites, I completely allow that. All I'm saying is IQ isn't necessarily responsible for Jewish success. Especially when you factor in how much ingroup preference Jews have. Jews hire or otherwise make room for other Jews, over other races. Combined with willingness to do jobs others won't - which isn't even a bad thing - they're able to corner the market in a lot of arenas.
I think if whites or Asians had the same ingroup preference, they'd take over even harder, despite their potentially lower IQs, just based off population. For example, if whites did this in a white-majority country, it would be basically 100% whites in all power. Wouldn't mean they're smarter, though, or that their intelligence is what got them there.
Yeah, that's pretty silly. Asians have done pretty dang well, historically speaking, and have created and invented a lot of stuff.
Absolutely. However, it is very convenient how societal success for every social group lines up neatly with average IQ score. Of course, this allows the 'IQ is environmental' crowd to suggest that IQ is a product and not the cause.
Is there any evidence for this though? I'm sure it's true in the diamond business of Antwerp, where transactions supposedly do not even require contracts, but in law firms?
I don't think it is, I just haven't seen the evidence for it regarding lawyery.
This is an interesting question. But the funny thing is, this has actually been tried in countries like Malaysia. The result? Malays make up most of the politicians, but ethnic Chinese still vastly outearn them despite truly bizarre affirmative action programs and requirements that large parts of companies be owned by Malays.
I mean, to be fair, I do think it's a mix. You need a developed country to really shine, and things like malnutrition seem to tank IQ as well; whether that's cause or effect (or both) is up to debate, though. It's a complex issue...although perhaps I'm naive, as the ethnic makeups by country are often pretty distinct too, so you could take the same data and reach opposite conclusions based on how you view it. But the people who do better in the long term do also have higher IQ, that's certainly true.
Look at IQ per country maps, it's pretty dang interesting. Small neighboring countries have massive swings compared to each other. But ethnicities are also even more diverse than I realized, when I looked into it. Take Asia...it's really only a few of the more developed countries that show impressive IQs. Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, China, South Korea; all basically the top spots globally. After that you have to go down a long ways to find any more Asians. Heck, Kyrgyzstan borders China and has a average IQ of 79, ranking 123 globally. Kyrgyz are Turkic, whereas China is predominantly Han. Also look at something like Syria versus Iraq, or - oof - Cambodia versus Laos which - despite sharing borders - has a twenty point IQ swing. Or look at Africa, where you have massive swings in neighboring countries.
For Jews hiring Jews? I don't have any hard data on-hand, but it's hardly a reach. You can just listen to the stated values of Jews, from Jews themselves. They highly value their own people, and have massive ingroup preference. And that's a good thing. But it would be more surprising if they weren't going out of their way to look after their fellow Jews.
Huh, don't know too much about that, but sounds interesting to look into.
Yes. The consensus seems to be that every semi-developed modern country has enough good nutrition to allow for proper IQ development. Which is why China has such high average rates despite pockets of deep poverty. Though it may just be because the tests are taken in richer urban environments.
Aren't those a bit controversial? Not because "IQ bad", but because of the mechanism by which those alleged numbers were acquired, or even calculated?
I can think something else that they have in common: they are all of the Mongolian race.
And that is something I doubt, because Iraqis and Syrians are simply not that genetically different. Iraqis have more influences from Arabia than the Levantines, but that is not nearly enough to justify a 20 point IQ swing. That said, none of the maps I've ever seen make such a claim that I've noticed, IIRC it's just the normal Middle Eastern 80.
I don't think the head of Goldman Sachs has an 'in-group bias' though. Except for other members of the elites. Even if it's true that Jews, as a whole, tend to have an in-group bias, then it still does not follow that the Jews in question share that. That is the fallacy of division. What is true, on average, of the whole, is not necessarily true of the part.
Check out Thomas Sowell's Affirmative Action Around The World.