Just the facts ok: All groups of Jews have a genetic thread between them and are identifiable. Sure, Ashkenazi are different from Mizrahi. There are different tribes. You can tell them apart, and you can tell all of them from non-Jews. Ashkenazi would only not qualify for Right of Return if Israel chose to disqualify them, which since they are a foundational population of Israel would be ridiculous.
I've seen the genetic lineage maps wielded it at Dr. Jester, and he was correct in pointing out that, yeah, those maps indicate that the variation among semites is wide enough to cross larger genetic strata. Different semetic peoples are more closely related to the populations that they live next to, than other semetic peoples.
This is the whole point. You can't tell them apart from non-jews, and it's one of the reasons the Nazis had to invent branding for them. Especially when we're talking about progressive racial fractioning, like "1/8th jew".
Again, the whole fight between American jews and Israeli jews is over the fact that if the Israelis had thier way, the American jews were simply not jewish enough to return to Israel and they fucking knew it, that's why they've been fighting the Orthodox and Conservative factions in the Israeli government for decades over it.
You can say that "oh they would all qualify", but the jews themselves have known for decades that they simply wouldn't. That book ("Jew Versus Jew") goes on (and on and on and on and on for hundreds of pages) about that infighting taking place all over the US and Israel over that very specific issue.
I've seen gene maps, too, in which it looked to me like Jews were well-clustered enough to be identified as a group. That means that there could be samples outside the area you identify as Jewish, so could it be used to do a Jew or Not Jew test, I don't know. DNA wasn't available to the Nazis, was it? So their inability to precisely identify Jews is understandable.
I actually don't understand what you're saying about semitic people, without seeing the data.
I also don't understand what you're saying about American Jews being not Jewish enough. Is this a matter of dilution?
I also don't understand what you're saying about American Jews being not Jewish enough. Is this a matter of dilution?
It's a matter of religion. "Dilution" doesn't really make sense. Yes, when you have marriage laws over several thousand years, you get some specificity. But in reality, most American jews take a secular, ethnic, irreligious approach to being jews; and basically make shit up as they went along about who got to do what, and how things got to work, all while continuing to call themselves jews.
Imagine if the Unitarian Church called themselves "catholics". They don't even acknowledge the divinity of Christ, and they aren't even people most protestants can respect. You can't be a catholic and reject Catholicism. American jews are the equivalent of Unitarian jews. They don't follow the religion, they just say they are jews and want that identity as a tool. In the book "Jew v. Jew" that I have, they even go over the fact that the problem with the US is that it integrated jews into it's society at a very early time. Unlike jews, literally everywhere else on Earth, American jews were integrated to the point of basically just being American without much distinction besides some of their religious traditions. But elsewhere in the world, jews centered everything around their religion. When the state of Israel became the "homeland for the jews", American jews were finally forced into having to reconcile the with the reality that they weren't even really jews anymore; just Americans. Many, because they are progressive, still fight to keep that identity without ever actually living up to it.
Just the facts ok: All groups of Jews have a genetic thread between them and are identifiable. Sure, Ashkenazi are different from Mizrahi. There are different tribes. You can tell them apart, and you can tell all of them from non-Jews. Ashkenazi would only not qualify for Right of Return if Israel chose to disqualify them, which since they are a foundational population of Israel would be ridiculous.
I've seen the genetic lineage maps wielded it at Dr. Jester, and he was correct in pointing out that, yeah, those maps indicate that the variation among semites is wide enough to cross larger genetic strata. Different semetic peoples are more closely related to the populations that they live next to, than other semetic peoples.
This is the whole point. You can't tell them apart from non-jews, and it's one of the reasons the Nazis had to invent branding for them. Especially when we're talking about progressive racial fractioning, like "1/8th jew".
Again, the whole fight between American jews and Israeli jews is over the fact that if the Israelis had thier way, the American jews were simply not jewish enough to return to Israel and they fucking knew it, that's why they've been fighting the Orthodox and Conservative factions in the Israeli government for decades over it.
You can say that "oh they would all qualify", but the jews themselves have known for decades that they simply wouldn't. That book ("Jew Versus Jew") goes on (and on and on and on and on for hundreds of pages) about that infighting taking place all over the US and Israel over that very specific issue.
I've seen gene maps, too, in which it looked to me like Jews were well-clustered enough to be identified as a group. That means that there could be samples outside the area you identify as Jewish, so could it be used to do a Jew or Not Jew test, I don't know. DNA wasn't available to the Nazis, was it? So their inability to precisely identify Jews is understandable.
I actually don't understand what you're saying about semitic people, without seeing the data.
I also don't understand what you're saying about American Jews being not Jewish enough. Is this a matter of dilution?
It's a matter of religion. "Dilution" doesn't really make sense. Yes, when you have marriage laws over several thousand years, you get some specificity. But in reality, most American jews take a secular, ethnic, irreligious approach to being jews; and basically make shit up as they went along about who got to do what, and how things got to work, all while continuing to call themselves jews.
Imagine if the Unitarian Church called themselves "catholics". They don't even acknowledge the divinity of Christ, and they aren't even people most protestants can respect. You can't be a catholic and reject Catholicism. American jews are the equivalent of Unitarian jews. They don't follow the religion, they just say they are jews and want that identity as a tool. In the book "Jew v. Jew" that I have, they even go over the fact that the problem with the US is that it integrated jews into it's society at a very early time. Unlike jews, literally everywhere else on Earth, American jews were integrated to the point of basically just being American without much distinction besides some of their religious traditions. But elsewhere in the world, jews centered everything around their religion. When the state of Israel became the "homeland for the jews", American jews were finally forced into having to reconcile the with the reality that they weren't even really jews anymore; just Americans. Many, because they are progressive, still fight to keep that identity without ever actually living up to it.