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18
Pay for same $100k Job: USA vs EU (media.communities.win)
posted 3 years ago by Chukna 3 years ago by Chukna +18 / -0
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– dekachin 3 points 3 years ago +3 / -0
  1. EU pay is much lower than the US for the same job, I've read 20% but it could be 30%. The caveat to this is that Euros work far less hours, since they have basically a whole extra month off per year in vacation time. So it's more of a choice of working more and getting paid more (US) or having tons of vacation time (EU).

  2. 2022 US federal taxes on 100k = $17,835.5, so 17.8%. That's a single filer. Married is a bit lower. I looked up a calculator for California and the total state and federal would be $28k, so 28%. California is a higher tax state.

  3. Cost of living varies a huge amount in the US. It can be super low which it is in like 90% of the country, or super high if you like in San Francisco. Where I live in LA is one of the highest in the country, but it's still a lot lower than Western Europe.

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– AntonioOfVenice 2 points 3 years ago +2 / -0

EU pay is much lower than the US for the same job, I've read 20% but it could be 30%. The caveat to this is that Euros work far less hours, since they have basically a whole extra month off per year in vacation time. So it's more of a choice of working more and getting paid more (US) or having tons of vacation time (EU).

That's definitely part of it. Also, the confiscatory taxes we pay cover unemployment insurance, disability insurance (which is a large % of your salary and not a token payment). OTOH, employers do not cover health insurance.

30% is an enormous difference. We have more vacation days, but not 30% of the year (which would justify the difference) - which would be 76 days. You do have unlimited so called 'sick days', basically no overtime, no wage theft. If you exit the company, even of your own accord, they have to pay your remaining vacation days.

All in all, this does not justify 30%, and I think as it is always said, productivity of US workers is just higher. And because employees are more easily fired, they move to the places where they are most productive, at least in the opinion of the employer. If you can't fire an employee, but want him gone, you're at least going to give him as few pay increases as possible.

Where I live in LA is one of the highest in the country, but it's still a lot lower than Western Europe.

I know someone who moved from Western Europe to LA.

He'd beg to disagree. Even rent is about 3 times the grossly inflated rates that we pay here in similar, decent neighborhoods.

I think Americans think Western Europe means "Norway or Switzerland", for which this may hold true.

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▲ 2 ▼
– dekachin 2 points 3 years ago +2 / -0

productivity of US workers is just higher. And because employees are more easily fired, they move to the places where they are most productive, at least in the opinion of the employer.

You just explained why "at will" employment is the superior system. It just works better as a whole. It means people are more likely to be in the jobs best suited to them. In aggregate this makes a big economic difference.

He'd beg to disagree. Even rent is about 3 times the grossly inflated rates that we pay here in similar, decent neighborhoods.

LA is a big place and has some extremely expensive areas, one of which he probably went to. I never lived in those places because I don't like to burn money. Most of LA is not that expensive. I seriously doubt you can call your places "similar" to the high end places in LA, though. They're expensive for a reason.

The problem with LA is that it has a huge hispanic population (50%) & some black (10%), and white/asian people really don't like living around them. It costs a lot of money to not live in or near an area full of mexicans. I've always lived in "nice enough, not ghetto, but also not 'fancy'" areas, and I'm sure the rents are cheaper than equivalents in London/Paris etc.

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– AntonioOfVenice 1 point 3 years ago +1 / -0

You just explained why "at will" employment is the superior system. It just works better as a whole. It means people are more likely to be in the jobs best suited to them. In aggregate this makes a big economic difference.

That is a question of values. I couldn't give a damn about the "big economic differences", same for most people in Europe. We're perfectly fine being a bit poorer, as long as people have job security (and you don't take it too far like ze French). It's not all about money, contrary to your American mindset.

LA is a big place and has some extremely expensive areas, one of which he probably went to. I never lived in those places because I don't like to burn money. Most of LA is not that expensive. I seriously doubt you can call your places "similar" to the high end places in LA, though. They're expensive for a reason.

It's no Beverly Hills. Just a normal neighborhood. He's a stingy European, he's not going to get an expensive house. And in fact, the house itself was very similar to my own: an apartment of about equal size. As for the rest of cost of living: I think goods are cheaper in LA, but services are more expensive.

The problem with LA is that it has a huge hispanic population (50%) & some black (10%), and white/asian people really don't like living around them. It costs a lot of money to not live in or near an area full of mexicans. I've always lived in "nice enough, not ghetto, but also not 'fancy'" areas, and I'm sure the rents are cheaper than equivalents in London/Paris etc.

I would not compare Paris and London to LA, they are actual capital cities. But I'm not familiar with housing prices there. Most European countries have the same kinds of counterproductive housing policies that exist in California, but I guess population growth has been worse in California.

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– dekachin 1 point 3 years ago +1 / -0

It's not all about money, contrary to your American mindset.

Humanity is a competitive enterprise. If it's not all about money for you, it will be for someone else, and they will outpace and dominate you.The world is lucky the dominant power is the US, because we - contrary to your claims - do not empire build like everyone else would have. We basically leave everyone else alone and let them even free ride off of us.

But let's say the "all about money" power who left you in the dust was Communist China. Well, in that case, you'd better learn Chinese and get ready to have the Han nuts on your chin, because China would absolutely conquer and vassailze you and everyone else in the world, and then you'd lose sovereignty and the Chinese way would be imposed on you.

I would not compare Paris and London to LA, they are actual capital cities.

Whether a city is a capital or not means nothing. Washington DC is the capital of the US and it's a shithole. LA Metro area has 18.5 million people.

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– deleted 5 points 3 years ago +5 / -0

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