what did you think of the rebellion of the 20 against McCarthy?
Dumb, immature, and ignorant of how to win at politics. It just makes the Republicans look weak, disorganized, not unified, and subject to being extorted by the fringe.
A unified party that moves in lock step is a stronger party. A stronger party that wins more against the Left will, in the end, get the "far" Right more of what they want, even if they have to accept less than their wish list, because their wish list was NEVER on the table.
Let's say your faction and my faction are bargaining. I want you to pay $100. You want to pay $0. Politics means all else being equal, you'll pay $50. My "extremists" want $100. If they shut the fuck up and play ball, the number will be higher than $50. If they throw tantrums and act like children to put on a show for their constituents, it will be under $50. Therefore, my take is this:
"MAGA" type candidates who care more about putting on a show than winning, are selfish and a liability to the party who ultimately help the Democrats, not the Right. Many of them are also stupid and unqualified just as people. When I see redditors masturbating to the House shitshow, that's how you know you're definitely helping the other side.
You're never going to get $100. Your goal as a politician should be to get that number as high as possible, understanding that throwing a tantrum about not getting $100 is only going to get you less.
Dumb, immature, and ignorant of how to win at politics. It just makes the Republicans look weak, disorganized, not unified, and subject to being extorted by the fringe.
Huh, that's unexpected. I know you're a partisan, establishment GOP, but you've also dissented at times. Here, they clearly got concessions for their stance. There were folks here who said: hold out forever, but I didn't agree with that either.
Hold out long enough to force the leadership to give you some stuff that you want, and then give them you vote. It has the added benefit that next time they'll be more afraid of you - so maybe you won't even need to execute your threat then.
A unified party that moves in lock step is a stronger party.
It is not a unified party. The party does not work for your interests, or mine. It has to be forced to do what is right. Or did you think people like Eyepatch McCain or a Kevin McCarthy were voluntarily going to do what is in the people's interests?
Let's say your faction and my faction are bargaining. I want you to pay $100. You want to pay $0. Politics means all else being equal, you'll pay $50. My "extremists" want $100. If they shut the fuck up and play ball, the number will be higher than $50. If they throw tantrums and act like children to put on a show for their constituents, it will be under $50. Therefore, my take is this:
Here's a more realistic scenario:
Your leadership wants $50 for Goldman Sachs, $50 for Raytheon, and $0 for you. Yet it demands that you vote for KM as Speaker. So you say: no, I'm not gonna vote for you unless you make it worth my while. So you get $45 for Goldman Sachs, $45 for Raytheon, and $10 for you. That is still progress.
When I see redditors masturbating to the House shitshow, that's how you know you're definitely helping the other side.
Redditors are low IQ 'Current Thing' addicts. Three months from now, no one will remember the fight, but the concessions in the Rules, as well as the Church Committee, will still be there.
You're never going to get $100. Your goal as a politician should be to get that number as high as possible, understanding that throwing a tantrum about not getting $100 is only going to get you less.
Setting conditions for your support is not a 'tantrum'. It's literally the only way to get what you want.
Here, they clearly got concessions for their stance.
Yeah, weakening the Speaker, which weakens the Party, which weakens the Right. Which means the Democrats win.
Hold out long enough to force the leadership to give you some stuff that you want, and then give them you vote. It has the added benefit that next time they'll be more afraid of you - so maybe you won't even need to execute your threat then.
Tyranny of the tiny minority, which the Democrats use in propaganda to get swing voters to vote Democrat by portraying the Republicans and being exortionately controlled by the "far right" fringe of lunatics like Matt Gaetz. Nobody likes Matt Gaetz nationally. He comes off as a smug asshole. He helps the Democrats by existing. Just like MTG (though she didn't join the tantrum this time), and just like AOC for the Left. We need to benefit from AOC and learn from her lesson, not fucking copy her with our own cast of clowns.
The party does not work for your interests, or mine.
Bullshit, dude. Quibbling about who steers the ship is a luxury for those in power. The Republicans and the Right ARE NOT IN POWER. The last election was a massive disappointment and a rebuke to the idea that the Right was going to have its time in the Sun thanks to liberal retards doing BLM, CRT, tranny shit, and wrecking the economy. But no, the Right had to fuck it all up thanks to Trump being a selfish idiot and idiot right wingers going along with him by nominating CLOWNS, most of whom lost, and the ones who didn't lose? Immediately humiliated the party and the Right with their little House tantrum.
It has to be forced to do what is right. Or did you think people like Eyepatch McCain or a Kevin McCarthy were voluntarily going to do what is in the people's interests?
YOU DON'T GET TO CONTROL WHEN YOU AREN'T POPULAR. Okay? It's common sense. Even a child could understand it. You don't get to run the United States with like 20 House representatives. The only thing on your mind when you are a fringe loser whose ideas have little mainstream appeal, is to change that state of affairs and gain more of a following, while working with "the sellout compromised blah blah blah right wing" to WIN against the LEFT because the LEFT is actively trying to destroy the country while the Right wingers, even those who don't reflect your values, are simply not that bad.
Your leadership wants $50 for Goldman Sachs, $50 for Raytheon, and $0 for you.
As a non-retard who has been alive for 40+ years, that has never happened. I can look at what the government has actually done, okay? So can you. The Republicans have never, ever legislated for "Raytheon and Goldman Sachs". Hell, Goldman Sachs is openly left wing now along with the rest of Wall Street. The idea that Wall Street is right wing is decades obsolete.
What is the last big thing the Republicans accomplished? The TAX CUT. And what did the tax cut do? Made the tax system simplified and MORE PROGRESSIVE, not less. Liberals lie and claim it was tax cuts for the rich. It was not. The rich paid a higher share after.
You can look at Rick Scott's 12 point plan if you want to know what the Republican "establishment" stands for. It's absolutely amazing stuff and I agree with probably 95% of it. Meanwhile everything from the Democrats is a fucking nightmare. So the only reasonable course is to do everything to make sure the Democrats lose and the Republicans win. AFTER we win, THEN we can cuck ourselves with infighting like idiots. But as the out-party, there is no excuse.
Yet it demands that you vote for KM as Speaker. So you say: no, I'm not gonna vote for you unless you make it worth my while. So you get $45 for Goldman Sachs, $45 for Raytheon, and $10 for you. That is still progress.
Bro read a news article. That isn't what happened. No "concessions" had to do with money. It was all bullshit procedural shit to weaken the speaker so these fucking clowns can act like clowns even more.
These clowns are holding hostage the RIGHT to the benefit of the LEFT. That's all this was.
I'm the most solidly right wing person here. Trust me, if these clowns were actually fighting the good fight, I'd be right there with them. They aren't. They're dropping unforced errors just to get attention like children.
Three months from now, no one will remember the fight, but the concessions in the Rules, as well as the Church Committee, will still be there.
The rules concessions are bad and I hope McCarthy knifes them in the back once the clowns simmer down. I don't want a fucking Polish Veto in the Republican caucus.
And as far as investigations, that was always going to happen. McCarthy sure as fuck is not against Republicans using their control of committees to launch investigations of liberal bullshit. He's a standard Republican, not some squishy bitch like Mitt Romney.
Setting conditions for your support is not a 'tantrum'. It's literally the only way to get what you want.
It is when you're exploiting the fact that the Republican majority is super narrow, and so cannot win votes over the Democrats if there are more than a couple dissenters. These clowns are saying "if you don't give me what I want, I'm going to sabotage our side and let the Democrats win". That's extortionate, and it's helping the enemy, literally. Fuck them, in helping the Left, they're traitors to the Right.
Yeah, weakening the Speaker, which weakens the Party, which weakens the Right. Which means the Democrats win.
The Speaker is not the party, and the party is not the right. You have to hold them accountable. Because if you don't, you become like us. Here, there are countries where 'right-wing' establishment parties have been in power for years, and everything just keeps going to (*#@. They have no principles, they have no beliefs, all they want is to get office. It's your job to make sure that you make that conditional on something that you want.
Tyranny of the tiny minority, which the Democrats use in propaganda to get swing voters to vote Democrat by portraying the Republicans and being exortionately controlled by the "far right" fringe of lunatics like Matt Gaetz
Literally none of their demands would be anything a Democrat even 15 years ago would have disagreed with.
Gaetz may be obnoxious, but he's a good guy on policy. Against PAC donations, against corruption, against Ukraine BS.
The last election was a massive disappointment and a rebuke to the idea that the Right was going to have its time in the Sun thanks to liberal retards doing BLM, CRT, tranny shit, and wrecking the economy. But no, the Right had to fuck it all up thanks to Trump being a selfish idiot and idiot right wingers going along with him by nominating CLOWNS
You're not going to blame all of it on Trump, are you? I doubt he even played a role, but that may be my bias. I think it's abortion.
YOU DON'T GET TO CONTROL WHEN YOU AREN'T POPULAR. Okay?
The regime has controlled everything for decades with 0% popularity.
while working with "the sellout compromised blah blah blah right wing" to WIN against the LEFT because the LEFT is actively trying to destroy the country while the Right wingers, even those who don't reflect your values, are simply not that bad.
I live in Europe. I know what happens when you don't hold the "right" accountable. The establishment right in my country is at least as bad as the left.
I can look at what the government has actually done, okay? So can you. The Republicans have never, ever legislated for "Raytheon and Goldman Sachs". Hell, Goldman Sachs is openly left wing now along with the rest of Wall Street. The idea that Wall Street is right wing is decades obsolete.
So maybe the GOP can stop shilling for them and hold them accountable for once.
What is the last big thing the Republicans accomplished? The TAX CUT. And what did the tax cut do? Made the tax system simplified and MORE PROGRESSIVE, not less. Liberals lie and claim it was tax cuts for the rich. It was not. The rich paid a higher share after.
Say I pay $1 in taxes, and you pay $1000 in taxes. There's a tax cut, and afterwards I pay $0, and you pay $500. You pay a higher share, but you clearly also benefited more from the tax cut.
Why give tax cuts to Goldman Sachs? Why give tax cuts to people who hate you? That is my objection. And sure, it benefited the economy, but that was then all wrecked by Covid, so completely pointless after all.
You can look at Rick Scott's 12 point plan if you want to know what the Republican "establishment" stands for. It's absolutely amazing stuff and I agree with probably 95% of it. Meanwhile everything from the Democrats is a fucking nightmare. So the only reasonable course is to do everything to make sure the Democrats lose and the Republicans win. AFTER we win, THEN we can cuck ourselves with infighting like idiots. But as the out-party, there is no excuse.
Didn't Rick Scott single-handedly wreck GOP chances by coming up with batty proposals? But I don't see his batty plans here. It's alright, I guess.
Bro read a news article. That isn't what happened. No "concessions" had to do with money. It was all bullshit procedural shit to weaken the speaker so these fucking clowns can act like clowns even more.
If they won concessions, they are not losers. And I didn't say that the concessions did have to do with money. I just followed your analogy in how your work politics. The Speaker should not be a dictator or a tyrant, the folks who are actually elected should have some power, not just the corrupt interests. If he fails to follow through on his promises, they should vacate the chair.
I'm the most solidly right wing person here. Trust me, if these clowns were actually fighting the good fight, I'd be right there with them. They aren't. They're dropping unforced errors just to get attention like children.
Yeah, I don't know. I think you view the GOP establishment far more positively than is warranted.
The rules concessions are bad and I hope McCarthy knifes them in the back once the clowns simmer down. I don't want a fucking Polish Veto in the Republican caucus.
I'm impressed that you know of the Polish veto.
And as far as investigations, that was always going to happen. McCarthy sure as fuck is not against Republicans using their control of committees to launch investigations of liberal bullshit. He's a standard Republican, not some squishy bitch like Mitt Romney.
It's one thing to grandstand against "liberal bullshit". It's quite another thing to investigate power centers like the FBI, CIA, etc. Hell, I'm not convinced there will be a proper investigation even now, because people like Eyepatch McCain voted for the rules.
I'm OK with McCarthy, mostly because he is malleable. But I don't see him as being much better than Boehner left to his own deviuces.
It is when you're exploiting the fact that the Republican majority is super narrow, and so cannot win votes over the Democrats if there are more than a couple dissenters. These clowns are saying "if you don't give me what I want, I'm going to sabotage our side and let the Democrats win". That's extortionate, and it's helping the enemy, literally. Fuck them, in helping the Left, they're traitors to the Right.
Yes. They're traitors to the Lobbyists and heroes to the Right.
The Speaker is not the party, and the party is not the right.
The party represents the Right in the US government. It's success is the Right's succeeds. The Speaker represents the Right in the House. His effectiveness makes the Right stronger.
I'm sorry I can't keep going with you when you won't accept basic, common-sense premises about reality. Your whole "the parties are controlled by the illuminati and don't represent you at all" schtick gets old and it's obviously not true. I'm living in the real world and trying to help the Right over the Left because the Left ideology is fundamentally stupid and evil. I get it. You hate democracy. Groan. Not having democracy gets you shitshows like Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Venezuela, etc.
Dumb, immature, and ignorant of how to win at politics. It just makes the Republicans look weak, disorganized, not unified, and subject to being extorted by the fringe.
A unified party that moves in lock step is a stronger party. A stronger party that wins more against the Left will, in the end, get the "far" Right more of what they want, even if they have to accept less than their wish list, because their wish list was NEVER on the table.
Let's say your faction and my faction are bargaining. I want you to pay $100. You want to pay $0. Politics means all else being equal, you'll pay $50. My "extremists" want $100. If they shut the fuck up and play ball, the number will be higher than $50. If they throw tantrums and act like children to put on a show for their constituents, it will be under $50. Therefore, my take is this:
"MAGA" type candidates who care more about putting on a show than winning, are selfish and a liability to the party who ultimately help the Democrats, not the Right. Many of them are also stupid and unqualified just as people. When I see redditors masturbating to the House shitshow, that's how you know you're definitely helping the other side.
You're never going to get $100. Your goal as a politician should be to get that number as high as possible, understanding that throwing a tantrum about not getting $100 is only going to get you less.
Huh, that's unexpected. I know you're a partisan, establishment GOP, but you've also dissented at times. Here, they clearly got concessions for their stance. There were folks here who said: hold out forever, but I didn't agree with that either.
Hold out long enough to force the leadership to give you some stuff that you want, and then give them you vote. It has the added benefit that next time they'll be more afraid of you - so maybe you won't even need to execute your threat then.
It is not a unified party. The party does not work for your interests, or mine. It has to be forced to do what is right. Or did you think people like Eyepatch McCain or a Kevin McCarthy were voluntarily going to do what is in the people's interests?
Here's a more realistic scenario:
Your leadership wants $50 for Goldman Sachs, $50 for Raytheon, and $0 for you. Yet it demands that you vote for KM as Speaker. So you say: no, I'm not gonna vote for you unless you make it worth my while. So you get $45 for Goldman Sachs, $45 for Raytheon, and $10 for you. That is still progress.
Redditors are low IQ 'Current Thing' addicts. Three months from now, no one will remember the fight, but the concessions in the Rules, as well as the Church Committee, will still be there.
Setting conditions for your support is not a 'tantrum'. It's literally the only way to get what you want.
Yeah, weakening the Speaker, which weakens the Party, which weakens the Right. Which means the Democrats win.
Tyranny of the tiny minority, which the Democrats use in propaganda to get swing voters to vote Democrat by portraying the Republicans and being exortionately controlled by the "far right" fringe of lunatics like Matt Gaetz. Nobody likes Matt Gaetz nationally. He comes off as a smug asshole. He helps the Democrats by existing. Just like MTG (though she didn't join the tantrum this time), and just like AOC for the Left. We need to benefit from AOC and learn from her lesson, not fucking copy her with our own cast of clowns.
Bullshit, dude. Quibbling about who steers the ship is a luxury for those in power. The Republicans and the Right ARE NOT IN POWER. The last election was a massive disappointment and a rebuke to the idea that the Right was going to have its time in the Sun thanks to liberal retards doing BLM, CRT, tranny shit, and wrecking the economy. But no, the Right had to fuck it all up thanks to Trump being a selfish idiot and idiot right wingers going along with him by nominating CLOWNS, most of whom lost, and the ones who didn't lose? Immediately humiliated the party and the Right with their little House tantrum.
YOU DON'T GET TO CONTROL WHEN YOU AREN'T POPULAR. Okay? It's common sense. Even a child could understand it. You don't get to run the United States with like 20 House representatives. The only thing on your mind when you are a fringe loser whose ideas have little mainstream appeal, is to change that state of affairs and gain more of a following, while working with "the sellout compromised blah blah blah right wing" to WIN against the LEFT because the LEFT is actively trying to destroy the country while the Right wingers, even those who don't reflect your values, are simply not that bad.
As a non-retard who has been alive for 40+ years, that has never happened. I can look at what the government has actually done, okay? So can you. The Republicans have never, ever legislated for "Raytheon and Goldman Sachs". Hell, Goldman Sachs is openly left wing now along with the rest of Wall Street. The idea that Wall Street is right wing is decades obsolete.
What is the last big thing the Republicans accomplished? The TAX CUT. And what did the tax cut do? Made the tax system simplified and MORE PROGRESSIVE, not less. Liberals lie and claim it was tax cuts for the rich. It was not. The rich paid a higher share after.
You can look at Rick Scott's 12 point plan if you want to know what the Republican "establishment" stands for. It's absolutely amazing stuff and I agree with probably 95% of it. Meanwhile everything from the Democrats is a fucking nightmare. So the only reasonable course is to do everything to make sure the Democrats lose and the Republicans win. AFTER we win, THEN we can cuck ourselves with infighting like idiots. But as the out-party, there is no excuse.
Bro read a news article. That isn't what happened. No "concessions" had to do with money. It was all bullshit procedural shit to weaken the speaker so these fucking clowns can act like clowns even more.
These clowns are holding hostage the RIGHT to the benefit of the LEFT. That's all this was.
I'm the most solidly right wing person here. Trust me, if these clowns were actually fighting the good fight, I'd be right there with them. They aren't. They're dropping unforced errors just to get attention like children.
The rules concessions are bad and I hope McCarthy knifes them in the back once the clowns simmer down. I don't want a fucking Polish Veto in the Republican caucus.
And as far as investigations, that was always going to happen. McCarthy sure as fuck is not against Republicans using their control of committees to launch investigations of liberal bullshit. He's a standard Republican, not some squishy bitch like Mitt Romney.
It is when you're exploiting the fact that the Republican majority is super narrow, and so cannot win votes over the Democrats if there are more than a couple dissenters. These clowns are saying "if you don't give me what I want, I'm going to sabotage our side and let the Democrats win". That's extortionate, and it's helping the enemy, literally. Fuck them, in helping the Left, they're traitors to the Right.
The Speaker is not the party, and the party is not the right. You have to hold them accountable. Because if you don't, you become like us. Here, there are countries where 'right-wing' establishment parties have been in power for years, and everything just keeps going to (*#@. They have no principles, they have no beliefs, all they want is to get office. It's your job to make sure that you make that conditional on something that you want.
Literally none of their demands would be anything a Democrat even 15 years ago would have disagreed with.
Gaetz may be obnoxious, but he's a good guy on policy. Against PAC donations, against corruption, against Ukraine BS.
You're not going to blame all of it on Trump, are you? I doubt he even played a role, but that may be my bias. I think it's abortion.
The regime has controlled everything for decades with 0% popularity.
I live in Europe. I know what happens when you don't hold the "right" accountable. The establishment right in my country is at least as bad as the left.
So maybe the GOP can stop shilling for them and hold them accountable for once.
Say I pay $1 in taxes, and you pay $1000 in taxes. There's a tax cut, and afterwards I pay $0, and you pay $500. You pay a higher share, but you clearly also benefited more from the tax cut.
Why give tax cuts to Goldman Sachs? Why give tax cuts to people who hate you? That is my objection. And sure, it benefited the economy, but that was then all wrecked by Covid, so completely pointless after all.
Didn't Rick Scott single-handedly wreck GOP chances by coming up with batty proposals? But I don't see his batty plans here. It's alright, I guess.
If they won concessions, they are not losers. And I didn't say that the concessions did have to do with money. I just followed your analogy in how your work politics. The Speaker should not be a dictator or a tyrant, the folks who are actually elected should have some power, not just the corrupt interests. If he fails to follow through on his promises, they should vacate the chair.
Yeah, I don't know. I think you view the GOP establishment far more positively than is warranted.
I'm impressed that you know of the Polish veto.
It's one thing to grandstand against "liberal bullshit". It's quite another thing to investigate power centers like the FBI, CIA, etc. Hell, I'm not convinced there will be a proper investigation even now, because people like Eyepatch McCain voted for the rules.
I'm OK with McCarthy, mostly because he is malleable. But I don't see him as being much better than Boehner left to his own deviuces.
Yes. They're traitors to the Lobbyists and heroes to the Right.
The party represents the Right in the US government. It's success is the Right's succeeds. The Speaker represents the Right in the House. His effectiveness makes the Right stronger.
I'm sorry I can't keep going with you when you won't accept basic, common-sense premises about reality. Your whole "the parties are controlled by the illuminati and don't represent you at all" schtick gets old and it's obviously not true. I'm living in the real world and trying to help the Right over the Left because the Left ideology is fundamentally stupid and evil. I get it. You hate democracy. Groan. Not having democracy gets you shitshows like Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Venezuela, etc.