Fun fact, the word "equality" doesn't even appear in the US Constitution.
I know. "Equal" does appear in the DoI however.
The US Constitution was written to find balance between the tyranny of the many and the tyranny of the few.
When you say Constitution, are you including the Bill of Rights?
If someone was a citizen and owned property, they could vote (because they have a vested interest in the country), but they didn't scale the political influence of voters based on wealth either.
This is just motivated reasoning on both your part and the part of the liberals at the time. Suffrage was doled out this way to produce results friendly to the ruling class, just as it always has been.
Liberalism is concerned with equal application of the law, not making everyone equal.
In practice, liberalism is concerned with obfuscating power relations and destroying impediments to profits, including traditions, where applicable.
When you say Constitution, are you including the Bill of Rights?
Yes, the original ten amendments in particular. The more recent amendments are debatable.
This is just motivated reasoning on both your part and the part of the liberals at the time. Suffrage was doled out this way to produce results friendly to the ruling class, just as it always has been.
What motivated reasoning? I'm just stating historical fact.
What ruling class? They had to basically force George Washington to be President. There was so little power in the federal government at the time, it was considered a burden... an act of servitude, to serve in Congress.
In practice, liberalism is concerned with obfuscating power relations and destroying impediments to profits, including traditions, where applicable.
OK. Don't forget it was a fight to get them in there...
What motivated reasoning? I'm just stating historical fact.
I interpreted you as approving of the fact that only property owners could vote. It's something a lot of right liberals say today.
What ruling class? They had to basically force George Washington to be President. There was so little power in the federal government at the time, it was considered a burden... an act of servitude, to serve in Congress.
I don't understand this argument. You are implying that the lack of power in the Presidency means there is no ruling class.
Can you back this up with anything?
Sure. You can see liberalism obfuscating power relations in a topic we are discussing now, restricted suffrage. This topic obfuscates power relations when it comes up in its usual form because the implication is that society is going to shit because we gave too much power to the wrong type of plebes. In reality, it's going to shit because of the people with the most amount of power.
As I said, to Gizortnik, history backs up my claim that liberalism destroy traditions. What traditions are being preserved by liberalism? How is it even helping?
The word "equality" doesn't appear in the Declaration of Independence either.
I interpreted you as approving of the fact that only property owners could vote. It's something a lot of right liberals say today.
That's how the US Constitution was originally written, and yes, I think that was much better than what we have now where people who no ability to contribute to society or vested interest in the success of the country are being catered to by politicians looking to buy their votes with the taxes they take from those who do contribute.
I don't understand this argument. You are implying that the lack of power in the Presidency means there is no ruling class.
No, I'm asking you to explain WHO the ruling class were, because they clearly weren't the politicians, and if they weren't the politicians, how did they rule? Influence was greatly limited by geography at the time. It was nothing like it is today. Unless you could literally deploy force over a large geographical area, your ability to "rule" was extremely limited.
Actually, nevermind. I don't really care. Let's move on.
Sure. You can see liberalism obfuscating power relations in a topic we are discussing now, restricted suffrage. This topic obfuscates power relations when it comes up in its usual form because the implication is that society is going to shit because we gave too much power to the wrong type of plebes. In reality, it's going to shit because of the people with the most amount of power.
I can't see any of this, sorry. You're going to have to be more specific. I don't think you actually understand what liberalism is. You speak in generalities but you don't seem to be able to provide specific examples.
Give me a specific example of how liberalism is obfuscating power relations on the topic of voting rights. I've already addressed the fact that "equality" as you are using it isn't part of liberalism.
As I said, to Gizortnik, history backs up my claim that liberalism destroy traditions. What traditions are being preserved by liberalism? How is it even helping?
Can you provide examples? What traditions?
Religious traditions have been passed down in the USA for hundreds of years. Family traditions, holiday traditions, likewise. What exactly are you talking about and how did liberalism destroy them?
I don't think we're going to agree on any of this, but I want to give it another try.
I know. "Equal" does appear in the DoI however.
When you say Constitution, are you including the Bill of Rights?
This is just motivated reasoning on both your part and the part of the liberals at the time. Suffrage was doled out this way to produce results friendly to the ruling class, just as it always has been.
In practice, liberalism is concerned with obfuscating power relations and destroying impediments to profits, including traditions, where applicable.
Dol?
Yes, the original ten amendments in particular. The more recent amendments are debatable.
What motivated reasoning? I'm just stating historical fact.
What ruling class? They had to basically force George Washington to be President. There was so little power in the federal government at the time, it was considered a burden... an act of servitude, to serve in Congress.
Can you back this up with anything?
DoI = Declaration of Independence
OK. Don't forget it was a fight to get them in there...
I interpreted you as approving of the fact that only property owners could vote. It's something a lot of right liberals say today.
I don't understand this argument. You are implying that the lack of power in the Presidency means there is no ruling class.
Sure. You can see liberalism obfuscating power relations in a topic we are discussing now, restricted suffrage. This topic obfuscates power relations when it comes up in its usual form because the implication is that society is going to shit because we gave too much power to the wrong type of plebes. In reality, it's going to shit because of the people with the most amount of power.
As I said, to Gizortnik, history backs up my claim that liberalism destroy traditions. What traditions are being preserved by liberalism? How is it even helping?
The word "equality" doesn't appear in the Declaration of Independence either.
That's how the US Constitution was originally written, and yes, I think that was much better than what we have now where people who no ability to contribute to society or vested interest in the success of the country are being catered to by politicians looking to buy their votes with the taxes they take from those who do contribute.
No, I'm asking you to explain WHO the ruling class were, because they clearly weren't the politicians, and if they weren't the politicians, how did they rule? Influence was greatly limited by geography at the time. It was nothing like it is today. Unless you could literally deploy force over a large geographical area, your ability to "rule" was extremely limited.
Actually, nevermind. I don't really care. Let's move on.
I can't see any of this, sorry. You're going to have to be more specific. I don't think you actually understand what liberalism is. You speak in generalities but you don't seem to be able to provide specific examples.
Give me a specific example of how liberalism is obfuscating power relations on the topic of voting rights. I've already addressed the fact that "equality" as you are using it isn't part of liberalism.
Can you provide examples? What traditions?
Religious traditions have been passed down in the USA for hundreds of years. Family traditions, holiday traditions, likewise. What exactly are you talking about and how did liberalism destroy them?
I don't think we're going to agree on any of this, but I want to give it another try.