Not endorsing the idea of fraud, but fraud isn't just pulling something shifty and hoping the other guy doesn't notice. Successful frauds are hard to detect by design. Measures and countermeasures. More time means more opportunity to get it right. The allegation is not that some doofus is printing off a bazillion extra ballots and throwing them onto the pile. The allegation is than some smart people have time to analyze the math (partial returns) and engineer a fix that is not statistically obvious. You can argue this is not happening, but it would be silly to say that it is impossible.
EDIT (Reason: Brain fart): Left out the answer to your question. Slowing results gives a would-be-fraudster time to work because it limits the flow of information and allows fine tuning. Think of it more like a PID control system; if you don't have to make a one shot correction, why would you? Tune the fix as the data comes in.
Not endorsing the idea of fraud, but fraud isn't just pulling something shifty and hoping the other guy doesn't notice. Successful frauds are hard to detect by design.
Absolutely. Isn't that why it's impossible to absolutely demonstrate fraud in Chicago in the 1960 presidential? However, delaying an election count until freaking CHRISTMAS sort of beats the "hard to detect" part.
When Brazil can count all ballots in a day, what excuse does Arizona have?
The allegation is than some smart people have time to analyze the math (partial returns) and engineer a fix that is not statistically obvious. You can argue this is not happening, but it would be silly to say that it is impossible.
Nothing is impossible. However, if I wanted to conduct fraud, I wouldn't do it like this. This seems like the dumbest way to do it - in a way that even if you are not committing fraud, everyone thinks that you are.
Slowing results gives a would-be-fraudster time to work because it limits the flow of information and allows fine tuning. Think of it more like a PID control system; if you don't have to make a one shot correction, why would you? Tune the fix as the data comes in.
Makes sense. But if you do it like that, everyone will suspect fraud. Hell, even though I don't believe in fraud making a meaningful difference, next time someone here (in Europe) complains about BLUMPF alleging fraud, I'm going to answer: hey, how come the richest country in the world takes weeks to count ballots when third world countries do it in a day?
Because have you seen the state of the administration and left in general? They are useless egotistical tyrants that throw things when they don't get their way.
The only reason they are getting away with it is the GOP leadership at large is enabling them to get away with it, why? Because they think if they do badly enough in the midterms they will dent or even stop a Trump run.
That's how retarded this whole thing is, it's like cutting off your leg to stop yourself driving your boss to a meeting before the guy that wants to bankrupt your business.
My favorite part about Florida having a top-tier voting system is that it was installed in a bipartisan way, especially urged by Democrats, after the 2000 election laughingstock.
Back then they still were interested in getting real votes instead of just creating them out of thin air.
You must count early if you have early voting and then after the election closes publish the daily totals for each day, so Florida is doing that right.
This way a concerned citizen could vote early, stick around the poll and oversee it's run fairly, and watch the daily counting after. This is the only way people can ensure the vote is counted correctly other than sleeping outside the vault (ha ha) padlocked closet containing the uncounted votes. In fact the parties and media will ensure there's people there overseeing the counts so they get early indicators and that the counts aren't changed later.
Otherwise the number of early votes is a lower bound on cheating - nobody can know whether they are real votes or not so they might as well be cheated votes.
Of course the implication of this is don't have early voting so the media can't have a daily running count that influences later voters. Maybe call it an election "day".
Then why is it that these states in particular, all swing states where the result is most important to who has won power all have these rules so it takes a week after the election to do it while everyone else gets the results on election night?
That seems way too much of a coincidence more like it was engineered that way after 2016. As I've said previously, of every other country on earth can do it so that it appears done in one day, the fuck does it say about the state of the US right now?
Florida had probably the MOST secure elections in the US, voted one day got results really quickly in the night. So the results are probably right
Everywhere else, put it this way, you're STILL waiting for results, that says it all.
Even if they're using the time to commit fraud, what excuse do they have for such tardy fraud?
Not endorsing the idea of fraud, but fraud isn't just pulling something shifty and hoping the other guy doesn't notice. Successful frauds are hard to detect by design. Measures and countermeasures. More time means more opportunity to get it right. The allegation is not that some doofus is printing off a bazillion extra ballots and throwing them onto the pile. The allegation is than some smart people have time to analyze the math (partial returns) and engineer a fix that is not statistically obvious. You can argue this is not happening, but it would be silly to say that it is impossible.
EDIT (Reason: Brain fart): Left out the answer to your question. Slowing results gives a would-be-fraudster time to work because it limits the flow of information and allows fine tuning. Think of it more like a PID control system; if you don't have to make a one shot correction, why would you? Tune the fix as the data comes in.
Absolutely. Isn't that why it's impossible to absolutely demonstrate fraud in Chicago in the 1960 presidential? However, delaying an election count until freaking CHRISTMAS sort of beats the "hard to detect" part.
When Brazil can count all ballots in a day, what excuse does Arizona have?
Nothing is impossible. However, if I wanted to conduct fraud, I wouldn't do it like this. This seems like the dumbest way to do it - in a way that even if you are not committing fraud, everyone thinks that you are.
Makes sense. But if you do it like that, everyone will suspect fraud. Hell, even though I don't believe in fraud making a meaningful difference, next time someone here (in Europe) complains about BLUMPF alleging fraud, I'm going to answer: hey, how come the richest country in the world takes weeks to count ballots when third world countries do it in a day?
So, the goal of the operation is not to commit fraud, but to show to everyone that the people of the US are powerless to stop the fraud.
And what would the goal of that be?
Because have you seen the state of the administration and left in general? They are useless egotistical tyrants that throw things when they don't get their way.
The only reason they are getting away with it is the GOP leadership at large is enabling them to get away with it, why? Because they think if they do badly enough in the midterms they will dent or even stop a Trump run.
That's how retarded this whole thing is, it's like cutting off your leg to stop yourself driving your boss to a meeting before the guy that wants to bankrupt your business.
My favorite part about Florida having a top-tier voting system is that it was installed in a bipartisan way, especially urged by Democrats, after the 2000 election laughingstock.
Back then they still were interested in getting real votes instead of just creating them out of thin air.
You must count early if you have early voting and then after the election closes publish the daily totals for each day, so Florida is doing that right.
This way a concerned citizen could vote early, stick around the poll and oversee it's run fairly, and watch the daily counting after. This is the only way people can ensure the vote is counted correctly other than sleeping outside the
vault(ha ha) padlocked closet containing the uncounted votes. In fact the parties and media will ensure there's people there overseeing the counts so they get early indicators and that the counts aren't changed later.Otherwise the number of early votes is a lower bound on cheating - nobody can know whether they are real votes or not so they might as well be cheated votes.
Of course the implication of this is don't have early voting so the media can't have a daily running count that influences later voters. Maybe call it an election "day".
Then why is it that these states in particular, all swing states where the result is most important to who has won power all have these rules so it takes a week after the election to do it while everyone else gets the results on election night?
That seems way too much of a coincidence more like it was engineered that way after 2016. As I've said previously, of every other country on earth can do it so that it appears done in one day, the fuck does it say about the state of the US right now?