67 () posted 2 years ago by folx 2 years ago by folx +70 / -3 59 comments share 59 comments share save hide report block hide replies
Well ... to your first point, look at Rome and its supposed degeneracy prior to and during its fall.
Same with the ancient Greeks, specifically Athenians.
Even when there's documented evidence that there were laws on the books that tried to curb such evil.