Bill Burr on abortion
(youtu.be)
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The argument did not make sense though. By definition, something that only "will be a cake" is not a cake right now. Same for a baby. If it's in the later stages, sure, it's a baby and killing it is murder.
But should I really get upset about an abortion at 6 weeks?
The real issue, at least to me, is when do you draw the line? For the record, up till a few years ago, I've been mostly pro choice, and a part of me still is. But the pro choice arguments don't really hold up, the more you look at it. It's always the taking of a life, and of potential life. Is there a point where that can be done more humanely than, for example, eight months in? Sure. Is there an argument that the good could outweigh the bad in that more humane option? Sure, the argument can be made, and I'm not even completely in disagreement. There is certainly...utility in abortion. But is it something we need in society? Is that utility good for society?
But the fact remains, you need a limiting principle. Why is six weeks alright, and when isn't it alright? Is eight weeks alright? Twelve? And why would one be alright, and the other not? Is it a heartbeat? Is it viability? If heartbeat, why? It's the same issues as to birth; it was about to get a heartbeat, why is it alright to kill it right before, but not after? As to viability, the issue there is that it's always changing based on medical access, and current technology. If you're drawing off any arbitrary criteria, you're failing to protect the rights of the baby.
Again, not even specifically saying it should 100% be off the table, but the discussion needs to be had, that limiting principle needs to be defined, and the rationale used to reach the conclusion needs to be crystal clear. Why is it alright to kill a six week old baby in the womb, if it's not alright to kill an X week old baby in the womb?
Unfortunately, humans are not quantized objects, so there is a point where you just have to choose arbitrarily where that line should be drawn. It's a value judgement.
This is effectively a "Ship Of Theseus". When is it a new ship? After you've replaced every bolt? After you've replaced one bolt? The difference between one bolt and another isn't relevant... but we damn sure know something had to have changed.
Life doesn't begin at conception. This is because babies aren't abeogenic. Babies are a continuation of a constant state of life. We can talk about "it's a different chromosome", but that's only for sexual reproduction. In asexual reproduction it isn't different chormosomes.
At some point we chose to recognize the fetus to be a separate life. A line has to be drawn. Some people are going to get screwed over where that line is, and they are just going to have to deal with it.
When's the right time? Fuck if I know, that's still a value judgement, that's why it should be decided by the fucking states and not the feds. I guarantee that most people are going to be against allowing abortions 12 months, and also against executing a mother with first degree murder for taking Plan B. Most countries in the west seem to compromise on 6-15 weeks, which doesn't seem unreasonable.
That is the first point you get a unique being, though. If a line to be drawn, conception is certainly the cleanest. To be clear, not even saying there is no argument to be made for abortion some point after that fact, but you're certainly aborting a unique creature at any point after that. Conception is the least arbitrary and most clear cut definition you can get.
Also, we're talking humans, so sexual versus asexual reproduction is a moot point.
I tend to agree.
Also agreed.
I'll say it's certainly one of the more reasonable time frames, yes. Whether or not it's good enough is another thing but, like you said, it's a value judgement. It will be good enough for many, some will think it's still too much, and others will say it's too restrictive.
I don’t know why any time is reasonable to murder a baby. I used to be one of those people that said it was fine at X weeks, but you’re correct, it’s entirely arbitrary.
Once I realized it, it made no sense. Let’s say you think six weeks is reasonable. But all you had to do was wait a week or two, or several, and then the baby would have met the criteria that caused you to say it’s no longer reasonable. You know the “fetus” will become a baby, which will become a child, which will become an adult, barring any catastrophic events. So why are we pretending like it’s not a human as long as it’s in the woman’s womb?
As far as utility goes, to whom? To the woman who wants to be a whore? Yes, it’s very convenient for her, but that’s never a good reason to do anything.