Win / KotakuInAction2
KotakuInAction2
Communities Topics Log In Sign Up
Sign In
Hot
All Posts
Settings
All
Profile
Saved
Upvoted
Hidden
Messages

Your Communities

General
AskWin
Funny
Technology
Animals
Sports
Gaming
DIY
Health
Positive
Privacy
News
Changelogs

More Communities

frenworld
OhTwitter
MillionDollarExtreme
NoNewNormal
Ladies
Conspiracies
GreatAwakening
IP2Always
GameDev
ParallelSociety
Privacy Policy
Terms of Service
Content Policy
DEFAULT COMMUNITIES • All General AskWin Funny Technology Animals Sports Gaming DIY Health Positive Privacy
KotakuInAction2 The Official Gamergate Forum
hot new rising top

Sign In or Create an Account

31
The Guardian calls for NATO to declare war on Russia (archive.ph)
posted 2 years ago by AntonioOfVenice 2 years ago by AntonioOfVenice +31 / -0
60 comments share
60 comments share save hide report block hide replies
You're viewing a single comment thread. View all comments, or full comment thread.
Comments (60)
sorted by:
▲ -11 ▼
– dekachin -11 points 2 years ago +2 / -13

You've basically defined MAD out of existence.

Uhh no.

Basically, you've stated that because no party actually wants destruction, nuclear weapons will never be used, and thus the different parties can freely attack each other with conventional weapons without MAD ever being an issue.

Yes, nukes cancel out and conventional weapons are still able to be used.

As the Cold War showed, however, that isn't how MAD works.

Yes, it is actually.

Instead, MAD means that neither party will ever risk a direct confrontation because the consequences of even a small conflict could lead to MAD, and no one wants to take that risk.

Not true at all. Look at the Cuban missile crisis. Kennedy was willing to start launching air attacks on Cuba. Khrushchev backed down because he realized Castro was a lunatic who was saying he was totally happy to die to take down America. That was a unique situation and MAD STILL worked because the Russians didn't want to die, so they backed down.

The Russians acted in escalatory ways plenty of times in the Cold War, and in some cases so did the US. MAD proved itself time and time again to work because nobody was willing to launch 1st out of fear of retaliation.

MAD also prevented chemical weapons from being used in WW2.

YOUR formulation means that Russia can just keep invading everyone and nobody will ever do shit because they fear Russia's nukes and are frozen with fear. That's not only a load of shit, it would INCENTIVIZE Russia to act very aggressively with its nukes and to even use them since it could see how afraid of them everyone else was.

permalink parent save report block reply
▲ 6 ▼
– Footsoldier 6 points 2 years ago +7 / -1

You're underappreciating the brinkmanship behind MAD. A NATO attack brings us much closer to it than an invasion of Ukraine. The Cuban Missile Crisis is a better analog of the former, which is why it was resolved without conflict and doesn't support your point. The Cold War was just invasion after invasion with the 2 main contenders always in the corner or fighting lesser opponents. Russia actually can just keep invading "everyone", like America did, until NATO says "raise you" or pre-empts them.

permalink parent save report block reply
▲ -2 ▼
– dekachin -2 points 2 years ago +1 / -3

In the Korean and Vietnam Wars, Soviet and Chinese pilots flew missions using their own aircraft against US pilots, and fought them directly.

Stop pretending that it didn't happen, or that if we had American "volunteers" flying F22s over Ukraine and blowing the shit out of Russians, that would be any different than what the USSR did to us in the Cold War.

permalink parent save report block reply
▲ 1 ▼
– Footsoldier 1 point 2 years ago +2 / -1

Stop pretending what didn't happen? You didn't even attempt to actually process what I wrote. You can take the man out of Reddit...

permalink parent save report block reply
▲ 1 ▼
– SupremeReader 1 point 2 years ago +2 / -1

It was rather Che than Castro.

There were instances of chemical warfare in WWII, especially in China. (Biological too.)

permalink parent save report block reply
▲ -2 ▼
– dekachin -2 points 2 years ago +1 / -3

No it was Castro. Nobody gives a shit about Che. He wasn't the leader. Please consult the wikipedia at least before you "correct" me.

permalink parent save report block reply
▲ 1 ▼
– SupremeReader 1 point 2 years ago +2 / -1

It was Che who was excited about actual nuclear war.

Castro's slogan "socialism or death" didn't really shorten to "death".

permalink parent save report block reply
▲ 1 ▼
– dekachin 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

Ok bro you made me pull up the wiki:

Why Khrushchev blinked:

Castro, on the other hand, was convinced that an invasion of Cuba was soon at hand, and on October 26, he sent a telegram to Khrushchev that appeared to call for a pre-emptive nuclear strike on the US in case of attack. In a 2010 interview, Castro expressed regret about his 1962 stance on first use: "After I've seen what I've seen, and knowing what I know now, it wasn't worth it at all."[102] Castro also ordered all anti-aircraft weapons in Cuba to fire on any US aircraft; On October 28, 1962, Khrushchev told his son Sergei that the shooting down of Anderson's U-2 was by the "Cuban military at the direction of Raul Castro".

At this point, Khrushchev knew things the US did not. First, that the shooting down of the U-2 by a Soviet missile violated direct orders from Moscow, and Cuban anti-aircraft fire against other US reconnaissance aircraft also violated direct orders from Khrushchev to Castro.[131] Second, the Soviets already had 162 nuclear warheads on Cuba that the US did not then believe were there.[132] Third, the Soviets and Cubans on the island would almost certainly have responded to an invasion by using those nuclear weapons, even though Castro believed that every human in Cuba would likely die as a result.

Basically Castro was a lunatic that didn't care if Cuba got glassed. Maybe he thought he would get 40 virgin gopniks in Communism. Castro affirmed his desire for nuclear war in an interview in 1992, and then expressed regret in 2010.

Khrushchev did not want nuclear war. Castro did. Khrushchev knew that he couldn't control Castro from Moscow, so rather than give Castro the opportunity to start WW3, Khrushchev rug pulled him and caved in. Khrushchev "lost" and suffered a loss of face, because that was preferable to death.

While there might be an occasional lunatic like Castro out there, the Soviet/Russian nuclear arsenal is safeguarded against such people. It is controlled by people who don't want to die anymore than NATO does, which is why this nuclear brinkmanship from Putin, if it works, will create a very dangerous situation, which is why we need to stand up to it and not allow him to think that it is working. Show no fear.

permalink parent save report block reply

Original 8chan Links to Gamer Gate:

.

The main GG discussion is on the videogames board: https://8chan.moe/v/

.

GamerGate archive is at https://8chan.moe/gamergatehq/

.

GamerGate Wiki:

https://ggwiki.deepfreeze.it/index.php/Main_Page

. . . . . .

. . . . . .

The below rules are just a summary of the rules which can be found in the Welcome Ashore post.

.

ONE: Do not post Illegal Activity, or criminal manifestos.

.

TWO: Do not engage in speech that promotes, advocates, glorifies, or endorses violence.

.

THREE: Do not threaten, harass, defame, or bully users.

.

FOUR: Do not post involuntary Salacious Material.

.

FIVE: Do not post Porn

.

SIX: NSFW content must be flaired NSFW.

.

SEVEN: Do not post Facebook accounts or twitter accounts with less than 500 followers, and personal information.

.

EIGHT: Do not intentionally deceive others by impersonating another.

.

NINE: Do not solicit or engage in transactions that are federally regulated by the US govt.

.

TEN: No vote manipulation. Do not break communities.win's features.

.

ELEVEN: Do not post spam.

.

TWELVE: Do not post intentional falsehoods or hoaxes.

.

THIRTEEN: No reposts

.

FOURTEEN: Do not post more than 5 posts a day to this sub.

.

FIFTEEN: Do not direct particularly egregious identity based slurs at users.

.

SIXTEEN: Do not attack entire identity groups as inferior or conspiring.


Moderators

  • DomitiusOfMassilia
  • ClockworkFool
  • C
Message the Moderators

Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

2025.03.01 - wtdgr (status)

Copyright © 2024.

Terms of Service | Privacy Policy